Declined VSH SUPER JUMP

[ThCanadianMoose]

Super Jumps (Saxton Hale, Easter Bunny, Vagineer, and Gentlespy)

Super jumps are just sucking the life out of VSH. It’s nearly getting impossible to even win matches as hale and it’s becoming more Red Sided than the Hale’s sides. Imo, the changes isn’t balanced at all. It was more better when super jumps never costed your HP. I get that super jumps are suppose to be a “challenge” for you to not use it so much but I find it dumb. I’d rather have this kind of mode moved into the “!diff” command for players who wants to make their hale round challenging. In conclusion, I think having super jumps cost your health was a mistake to add. Now if you plan on keeping it instead of removing it, maybe do 500 HP for every super jump? Because super jumps are very useful and I find it unnecessary to have 3k HP removed for every super jump . Mostly because hales needs it to catch trolldiers who run away constantly or try to get sniper in specific places where they can’t reach or when they have to get to the other side of the map to reach other players who are far away. There are so many ways to change super jumps from being spammable but removing a chunk of HP for once super jump is not okay at all.

 

[spudster]

+1 like i said earlier

and why was it even a thing to add some sort of health drain while hales Superjump/teleport?? (I know I havent played for a while thanks to my laptop's connection going brrr and constant lag)

 

[Max1996]

+1

If anything needs an actual nerf, it's rocket/flare-jumping.

 

[Opb]

+1
This needs to be changed

 

[Hankman]

+1

 

[Glazzy]

+1... another issue is that weapons that were good before are now weak that relied on sjv such as huntsman, shortstop, and sniper headshots. Need some buffs to weapons like those that relied heavily on super jumping to deal adequate damage

 

[True Darkian]

This really needs a change!


Other suggestions:

• Only take HP if the hale superjumps too soon after an earlier superjump.
• Increase superjump cooldown on superjump, the cooldown increase will decrease overtime, superjump spamming hales will be punished by longer cooldowns.

 

[Miles Kilo]

+1

 

[RodGzM]

+1? Not really sure on removing this entirely since burst damage classes were hell with sjv. However I agree that it has made winning as hale way harder than before. The best solution I can think of right now is reducing the cost from 4% back to 2%.

 

[Arusu1]

+1 I agree, I think it would just be easier to have it as a !diff challenge rather than just having it default.

 

[Polaris]

-1 haha no

 

[Zeo]

+1

I couldn't even win with the regular super jump because I'm relatively new to VSH. Now you're telling me I'm going to suck more and die faster?

 

[Whurr]

+1, this change punishes accidental crouch superjumps harder than SJV did because at least with SJV if you SJ'd in an area with no reds, you didn't take any damage. now you have 4% of your health chopped off for just using your basic mobility mechanic. HHHjr didn't even need to worry about this because wallclimb is his actual mobility mechanic, not teleport. and if you were spamming tele as HHHjr, you were begging to get telefragged by one of the 4 funny texan hardhat men that were usually on RED that did nothing productive for their team. the only "good" upside 4% HP per SJ gives is that hale can now safely SJ into an area with a bunch of REDs and not have 40% of his health chipped off in the span of 4 seconds. but other than that, it makes playing superjump hales even worse than before.

 

[Polaris]

+1, this change punishes accidental crouch superjumps harder than SJV did because at least with SJV if you SJ'd in an area with no reds, you didn't take any damage. now you have 4% of your health chopped off for just using your basic mobility mechanic. HHHjr didn't even need to worry about this because wallclimb is his actual mobility mechanic, not teleport. and if you were spamming tele as HHHjr, you were begging to get telefragged by one of the 4 funny texan hardhat men that were usually on RED that did nothing productive for their team. the only "good" upside 4% HP per SJ gives is that hale can now safely SJ into an area with a bunch of REDs and not have 40% of his health chipped off in the span of 4 seconds. but other than that, it makes playing superjump hales even worse than before.

too many text, won't read.
Still -1 for me

 

[Syrup Sauce]

+1 I don't want to waste 10k HP just to get a mantreads soldier

 

[Zeke Aileron]

+1

I agree with the op, the 4% current hp cost is too much, the 2% current hp cost was alot better in terms of players still trying to get used to the new mechanic of the jumping.

 

[Jack Moloney]

IMO super jumps aren't really needed as much on VSH today because you can reach most classes while grounded, making super jumps only needed in specific situations such as reaching a class on a high vantage point or if you want additional mobility. This is especially true because of knock back resist being a massive carry and rages only taking a tiny 3.5k damage to charge out of a huge health pool varying between 30-60k. So, actually staying on the ground, m1ning, raging constantly and not jumping your health away is a very powerful tactic.

In my own experience, I've seen plenty of hales blow their health away by spamming super jump like no tomorrow, which caused RED to win a match that they definitely were supposed to lose. As a VSH vet I can definitely say that super jumping used to be the hard meta before due to the strafing air control capabilities which allowed you to annihilate anything short of a mobile class, and honestly, I kind of like it this way better because trying to kill a super mobile hale that doesn't get any drawbacks for gaining such mobility on a low cooldown is pretty stupid.

TL;DR super jumps aren't supposed to be used as much anymore as they used to be if you want to win a match as hale due to the balance changes on the server. You should only really spam them in the end game, where you have a low chance of losing and you don't lose health per jump (due to it reaching a low threshold).

-1

 

[Bottiger]

I probably should have written this explanation here so I didn't have to type this out multiple times.

Super jump spamming really needs to be nerfed.

It is the reason why a small percentage of people win as boss all the time while everyone else loses 90% of the time. Without it being nerfed, we cannot balance the game mode because any buffs would make super jump spammers way over the top while any nerfs would make it impossible for the average boss player to win.

This is why you have some people saying the boss is too overpowered and others saying the boss is too weak.

By spamming super jump, you avoid 90% of the damage because most people can't aim in the air, and it makes demoknight, pyros, and backstab spies unable to damage the boss. This is a major flaw in the game mode that has gone unfixed for far too many years.

Why did I do it this way?

Because super jump damage vulnerability didn't work well enough and people whined about it.

Why didn't we do cooldown instead?

I did, that was the first thing I tried over a year ago. I increased the cooldown from 4 to 5 seconds and I got as many complaints about that as we do now. We'd also probably have to increase the cooldown to >10 seconds just to make it properly balanced and then there would be no way to catch trolldiers.

Also putting a hard cooldown on the jump takes away the choice to spam jump.

This is not as big of a problem as you are making it out to be

Yes boss win rates have dropped. But they are still around 38-45% except for bunny, a few imbalanced maps, and very full 24+ player rounds.

The penalty is only 4% of your current hp and drastically drops the less hp you have. It also stops costing hp once you drop below 15% max hp.

As some people like Jack Maloney has realized, boss is not that hard now, you just shouldn't spam super jump like you did before.

Do I think this solution is kind of silly?

Yes, but I don't see a better way.

 

[Glazzy]

I just hope we get some weapon buffs to the weaker weapons since they relied on super jump spamming. There's a list of them... winger, sniper headshots, huntsman, shortstop, gunspy (needs a buff overall), minigun heavy, and many more

 

[ThCanadianMoose]

I probably should have written this explanation here so I didn't have to type this out multiple times.

Super jump spamming really needs to be nerfed.

It is the reason why a small percentage of people win as boss all the time while everyone else loses 90% of the time. Without it being nerfed, we cannot balance the game mode because any buffs would make super jump spammers way over the top while any nerfs would make it impossible for the average boss player to win.

This is why you have some people saying the boss is too overpowered and others saying the boss is too weak.

By spamming super jump, you avoid 90% of the damage because most people can't aim in the air, and it makes demoknight, pyros, and backstab spies unable to damage the boss. This is a major flaw in the game mode that has gone unfixed for far too many years.

Why did I do it this way?

Because super jump damage vulnerability didn't work well enough and people whined about it.

Why didn't we do cooldown instead?

I did, that was the first thing I tried over a year ago. I increased the cooldown from 4 to 5 seconds and I got as many complaints about that as we do now. We'd also probably have to increase the cooldown to >10 seconds just to make it properly balanced and then there would be no way to catch trolldiers.

Also putting a hard cooldown on the jump takes away the choice to spam jump.

This is not as big of a problem as you are making it out to be

Yes boss win rates have dropped. But they are still around 38-45% except for bunny, a few imbalanced maps, and very full 24+ player rounds.

The penalty is only 4% of your current hp and drastically drops the less hp you have. It also stops costing hp once you drop below 15% max hp.

As some people like Jack Maloney has realized, boss is not that hard now, you just shouldn't spam super jump like you did before.

Do I think this solution is kind of silly?

Yes, but I don't see a better way.

There is one problem that needs to be fixed about the 4% super jump.

https://mega.nz/file/r2xmlDwR#c7eclKP3oYOrQvppNFwTLcsLoFzTGDI2p_ffQMEcYrg
if you take a look at this video, it shows that the vagineer has taken damage from a single super jump. building up to another rage while being ubered at the same time. (Credit to Zeke Aileron for clipping this problem). As you can see, 4% SJ current now gives hale rage easily. He can build his rage during his current uber rage if he super jumps 2 times. So essentially he can uber lock himself.
It needs to be lowered down to 2% or even removed.