Declined VSH: Reds capping dilemma

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Wizzy, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Wizzy

    Wizzy Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    Problem: Reds are capping frequently on hales.

    Argument: It is too easy for reds to cap the point on a hale, leading to some frustrating defeats.

    Pros:
    -Reds win
    -Stops hales from camping and hiding, stalling the rounds
    -Forces gameplay on a long drawn out match

    Cons:
    -Encourages play where reds will hide or camp until they can sneak off and cap the point, sometimes wasting limited slots
    -Can be punishing for hales to try and catch someone capping the point due to how fast it caps on some maps
    -Some maps are designed poorly, with cap points in hard to reach places

    Solutions:
    -Remove scouts and the pain trains ability to x2 cap
    -Fix maps such as Tower of Peril from having such a fast capture rate
    -Give hales a teleport that triggers as soon as reds start capping the point
    -Remove maps with difficult to reach cap points, such as Tower of Peril
    -Make it so that the point opens up when only 1 red is left alive
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Luke

    Luke TF2 Admin

    Steam:

    I think all capture points should cap at the same rate, however the other things mentioned I don't agree with as much.

    However, your argument for equal capping times is rather flawed in this instance, since I think the only exception to equal cap times is if the map has a hard to reach point.

    In my mind the ability for Hale to cap is vitally important and it becomes more and more important the easier the map is to hide/camp on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    I agree some maps have capture points that cap way too quickly.

    But that's a easy fix I've been told by Pedro when I asked him to increase the cap time on a orange map

    Tell us what maps in specific have too quick capture times and we can get them increased

    I don't think hes asking for equal capping times across all maps. Some maps just have way too quick of a capture rate. Tower of peril is a good example, if a hale is up top and someone start capping the point its usually literally impossible for hale to reach the point in time.

    Space also has a really quick cap point allowing for any pyro to win by just airblast spamming hale
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Luke

    Luke TF2 Admin

    Steam:

    I understand that, sorry - perhaps I worded my response badly, typed it on a bus.
    All capture points should cap at the same rate, with modifications for the difficulty.
    It should be possible to win by capping the point for both teams, so if the Hale is on the furthest point from the CP - he shouldn't be able to stop it, in my mind.
    This means that I would have the size of the map and the difficulty to get to the capture point be taken into account when adjusting the times, as he seems to be suggesting.

    @Wizzy - if you want these changes to be made, post in Suggestions - so it can be handled properly.
     
  5. Maddo

    Maddo Forum Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    Moved
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Slippery Nipple

    Slippery Nipple Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight Mapper

    Steam:

    +1

    Don't remove the map. Change the cap time and move the point to a more accessible location.

    It should stick to two. Many times hales need to cap when players camp in pairs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Pedro the fabulous

    Pedro the fabulous TF2 Admin Contributor Master Mapper

    Steam:

    If you want maps to be edited, post them here. Chances are, most maps will just need their cap time to be increased which is relatively easy and fast to do.

    I've already changed tower of peril to have a 20 seconds cap time, but it might need more considering the control point is underwater.
     
  8. White Moose

    White Moose Gore-Spattered Heavy

    Steam:

    cap rates should depend on size and how much time it takes to get to

    • tower of peril is large but has deep underwater cap= slow cap
    • military small= fast cap
    • urban works large map / ez access cap = normal cap

    because if cap becomes to slow it will make cap more frowned upon
    and people love slaying and whining about hale capping
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. helloworld111

    helloworld111 Somewhat Threatening Sniper

    Steam:

    +1
    I would also suggest enabling cap when there is only 1 minute left till the round ends, and/or if no one dies for a few minutes. Generally that usually indicates someone is stalling.
    Maybe have the point cap faster if it's under overtime too, it's better than a stalemate at least.
     
  10. Bottiger

    Bottiger Administrator

    Steam:

    Capping issues should be fixed by setting the cap speeds for each map. I don't think there's a problem with having capping enabled at 2 players.

    If you have an issue with a particular map you should make a suggestion for that.

    I don't think that would be fair if Hale kills everyone fast, and then he has to wait a long time to cap because of a scout running around.

    If no one dies for a minute, it could be that the players are doing well against hale, but letting hale cap the point might be making it too easy for hale to win.