Declined [VSH] Pyro Meta Issue (Up-to-date Pyro Weapon Buffs thread)

[Glazzy]

So I've noticed recently that a lot of pyros, including myself, have only been running Phlog, Manmelter, and Sharpened Volcano Fragment. Although I think these weapons are totally balanced and are in no need of any further changes, I do believe that the Pyro class feels a bit forced with its meta having to rely on these 3 weapons or else they wont get very much damage (or will hurt the team more than help.) Here are some changes I propose to diversify the class and make Pyro overall much less repetitive to use:

All Flamethrowers:

• Airblast no longer gives hale rage but still extends uber (airblasts are frowned upon yet FaN and other knockback things exist... airblast resist is a thing too)

Dragon’s Fury:

• Keep the 20% damage bonus
  
  
• Take the degreaser’s airblast push force for defense
  
  
• Crit on Mini-crit for rewarding taunts and consecutive hits
  

Gas Passer:

• +35 health to tank an extra hit (in this case Manmelter will still be meta with phlog)

• +50% more primary ammo on pyro (For sacrificing long range dmg and mobility)
  
  
• Fix gas passer not exploding and dealing damage

Detonator:

• Passive minicrits to help build mmmph
  
  
• 90% fall damage resist
  

Flare Gun:

• Crit on minicrit
  
  
• 90% fall damage resist

Hot Hand:

• If possible, make function like the disciplinary action for longer speed boost on hit
  

Powerjack:

• +10% movement speed added (faster playstyle and for better chance at escape)
  

Reserve Shooter:

• Mini-crit if airblasted
  
  
• +50% Damage Bonus
  
  
• Faster firing rate
  

 

[Opb]

+1

 

[VSH_Pancake]

+1 make gas passer start with full?

 

[Zeke Aileron]

Since this is primarily for [VSH] side, i do want to add in for the "All Flamethrowers" part, Yes it's kind of dumb for it to give Bosses 10% rage per blast/knockback, considering there's weapons like Shortstop Shove, Force A Nature knockback, and Sniper mid-air shot that either stop Hale or knockback.

So i'd propose making the Flamethrowers(excluding Dragon's Fury) all needing more ammo used on Airblast Probably (+25% airblast cost) and no ammo from dispensers while active if the +10% rage is to be removed to be considered.

Reserve Shooter is fine as is currently cause it's a Pyro/Solder weapon, if changed it affects Soldier as well.

+1 as well.

 

[mub]

What the hell?

Some of these I can look into, but some of them are ridiculously powerful.

A lot of words

Airblast giving zero rage would just lead to being able to spam Pyro against Hales. Even with the airblast resistance, you can still stutter Hale enough, and stacking enough Pyros, you can immobilize him even at 100% resist.
Airblast giving rage has existed since the beginning to prevent locking Hale down in place easily; sure, other KB mechanics exist, but airblast requires very little aim as its functional hitreg is a giant box.

Dragon's Fury I'm still looking into a way to buff its damage without making it too powerful, but I think those two damage buffs could be good.
Giving it the extra airblast push would defeat the purpose of the Degreaser as the utility flamethrower and just give a strong buff that doesn't fit on the DF.

Gas Passer bug I'm looking into, and giving extra primary ammo to it sounds like a fine idea.
I'm also looking into how to make it recharge faster.
Letting it tank an extra hit just seems very unnecessary, the last thing we need is another class that can tank a hit passively by itself, especially considering this could be combined with Phlog.

Making MMMPH stronger doesn't make sense. I thought you wanted to spice up the Pyro meta, not reinforce it.
I'm trying to reduce fall damage resistance passives for other classes, I don't want another jumping class to take almost no fall damage.
I really do not want our meta to increase the amount of jumpy players who do nothing and never die. Hales are already getting annoyed with Sniper climb and Trolldier stalling.

Hot Hand speed mechanics work the exact same way the Disciplinary Action do. It's coded that way, currently. Don't know what to tell you there.

More speed on the powerjack? Why does Pyro need to be able to passively run at scout speed? The only other classes that can do so require serious sacrifices to access that kind of movement.

Reserve shooter can be looked at since it's being very much overshadowed by the shotgun at the moment.

Since this is primarily for [VSH] side, i do want to add in for the "All Flamethrowers" part, Yes it's kind of dumb for it to give Bosses 10% rage per blast/knockback, considering there's weapons like Shortstop Shove, Force A Nature knockback, and Sniper mid-air shot that either stop Hale or knockback.
So i'd propose making the Flamethrowers(excluding Dragon's Fury) all needing more ammo used on Airblast Probably (+25% airblast cost) and no ammo from dispensers while active if the +10% rage is to be removed to be considered.
Reserve Shooter is fine as is currently cause it's a Pyro/Solder weapon, if changed it affects Soldier as well.
+1 as well.

It's +8%, not +10%.

 

[Zeke Aileron]

It's +8%, not +10%.

Ah ok, well it should still be looked at if anything Pyro related gets a overhaul...

 

[Glazzy]

Airblast giving zero rage would just lead to being able to spam Pyro against Hales. Even with the airblast resistance, you can still stutter Hale enough, and stacking enough Pyros, you can immobilize him even at 100% resist.
Airblast giving rage has existed since the beginning to prevent locking Hale down in place easily; sure, other KB mechanics exist, but airblast requires very little aim as its functional hitreg is a giant box.

I mean... people already spam engies and FaN against hales on certain maps. Hale always has rage given through other sources to take them out if it really gets that bad. (A full server of an annoying class is bad for hale either way) Nobody wants to play as pyro anyways so I wouldn't mind a server of pyros actually lol. Like Zeke said, if pyro's airblast costed more ammo all around the class then that would be a nice exchange rather than outright not giving hales rage with it. If this is not an option then at least consider reducing the airblast rage build up to a much lower percentage.

Dragon's Fury I'm still looking into a way to buff its damage without making it too powerful, but I think those two damage buffs could be good.
Giving it the extra airblast push would defeat the purpose of the Degreaser as the utility flamethrower and just give a strong buff that doesn't fit on the DF.

I was just keeping in mind how exposed you are using that weapon since the airblast has a longer cooldown than the others and also prevents you from attacking with it too. This and the gas passer hp proposoal as well as the powerjack speed boost was what I was thinking how this loadout could be used. Degreaser I was thinking could be a nice option for the SVF and reserve shooter, if it ever gets changed, for its main utility of weapon holster/deploy speed.

I'm trying to reduce fall damage resistance passives for other classes, I don't want another jumping class to take almost no fall damage.
I really do not want our meta to increase the amount of jumpy players who do nothing and never die. Hales are already getting annoyed with Sniper climb and Trolldier stalling.

I get that, I really do. It's just not justifiable though imo to give Sniper, Solly, and even Demoman fall damage resistance but not Pyro. He simply takes way too much damage from flare gun jumping. Solly gets jumping and a way to deal damage during those jumps while Pyro can only jump away to jump away really. He needs some sort of fall damage resistance to make the flare gun a useful tool rather than a burden.

Hot Hand speed mechanics work the exact same way the Disciplinary Action do. It's coded that way, currently. Don't know what to tell you there.

To my knowledge, the disciplinary action has a longer speed boost when hitting the hale while Pyro's is only like a second long. The speed boosts when hitting a teammate are similar though.

 

[klurifax]

+1

 

[herp 105.4]

not a vsh player but i am a pyro player and what you just suggested gave me an aneurysm
jesus