Stack Man

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Mapper
Pyro's damage potential is far lower than every other class, and unlike Medic's Uber, airblast does not fully compensate for this due to a combination of airblast resist mechanics, airblast rage, range, and lack of damage.

This is why I propose to buff the following weapons:


The Phlogistinator
The best of the three here because of damage resistance. Still, the amount of damage is lacking for a weapon with such short range and no airblast.
  • Decrease base damage reduction from -33% to -15%

The Gas Passer
Previously, this weapon would fill Phlog meter and deal 350 damage. It no longer fills the meter and damage was reduced to a measly 175.
This is pathetic. Not only can the flare guns deal the same damage in a fraction of the time, but they also provide mobility.
Not filling MMMPH means no damage feedback loop, so there is no reason for the explosion damage to be so low.
To note: damage may occur twice (a bug) but is so inconsistent that it should not be considered for balance.
  • Increase explosion damage to 450.

Dragon's Fury
Longer range than Phlog. Also has airblast (albeit cooldown is twice as long). Therefore, the damage potential should be lower, but it is still too low regardless. (Not to mention, Phlog gets resist & it's harder to use)
  • Grant permanent Mini crits.

Exact #'s may not be perfect, but a change in the suggested direction would be nice.
 

True Darkian

Wicked Nasty Engineer
Contributor
This was already a suggestion, but it got forgotten, this really needs to be looked at.

Phlogistinator: I agree, this flamethrower is very weak right now, You can't airblast, you deal 33% less damage which also makes your Mmmph meter take longer to fill, and not only that, The Mmmph resistance isn't even that strong anymore, why bother using it? This indeed needs a buff. +1

The Gas Passer: Nothing was wrong with this weapon, a good damage source for Pyro after doing some effort with your flamethrower while sacrificing your escape weapon (Flare Gun, Thermal Thruster), Now it barely does a dent in hale's health making it useless, Which I believe is because of the addition of hale resistance. Return it back to 350 or like Stack Man said, buff it to 450, I don't mind if it won't fill Phlog resistance anymore. +1

Dragon's Fury:
This one is fun to use, but now it doesn't do that much damage anymore, Not only that but the airblast takes twice as long to recharge with this weapon. +1
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
yes.
+1

also remove airblast cooldown on ALL pyro weapons

This should have already been done, if you are still noticing a cooldown of some sort, feel free to report it as a bug.
 

uppe-r

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
This should have already been done, if you are still noticing a cooldown of some sort, feel free to report it as a bug.
it is removed, but ther'es the resistance shit now. same bs
 

herp 105.4

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
i feel sorry for anyone who plays pyro in both ff2 and vsh, get abused by idiots who go "arg dont airblast the boss" then 2 seconds later "arg airblast to boss to save me" the people who fucking wanted the nerfs are just salty soldier mains change my mind
 

Brimp

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
i feel sorry for anyone who plays pyro in both ff2 and vsh, get abused by idiots who go "arg dont airblast the boss" then 2 seconds later "arg airblast to boss to save me" the people who fucking wanted the nerfs are just salty soldier mains change my mind
I mean, I've died to a hale more often because the pyro decides to airblast him into the team or just follow and airblast him to get 400 damage therefore giving him rage. A good pyro already knows how to deal a lot of damage its just he is over shadowed by the fact that pyros don't use him correctly or just get raged immediately since no one except for the people that play him like it. A good pyro can stall hale for a while and get good damage and if he is stalling hale classes like sniper and mg soldier can get good damage while he's distracted its just most of the people who play him do stupid stuff. Pyro is in a fine spot right now and doesn't need buffs. As much as I hate him he can be viable depending on the hale.
 

Stack Man

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Mapper
I mean, I've died to a hale more often because the pyro decides to airblast him into the team or just follow and airblast him to get 400 damage therefore giving him rage. A good pyro already knows how to deal a lot of damage its just he is over shadowed by the fact that pyros don't use him correctly or just get raged immediately since no one except for the people that play him like it. A good pyro can stall hale for a while and get good damage and if he is stalling hale classes like sniper and mg soldier can get good damage while he's distracted its just most of the people who play him do stupid stuff. Pyro is in a fine spot right now and doesn't need buffs. As much as I hate him he can be viable depending on the hale.


Reminder that this thread is for VSH2 Pyro, not FF2.

VSH2 Pyro is far weaker than other classes.
 

Brimp

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Reminder that this thread is for VSH2 Pyro, not FF2.

VSH2 Pyro is far weaker than other classes.
I am talking about vsh2 pyro and I still see people deal thousands of damage as pyro. I only stopped playing vsh more than often recently but I've been here before turret testing was removed form the map rotations.
 

herp 105.4

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
I am talking about vsh2 pyro and I still see people deal thousands of damage as pyro. I only stopped playing vsh more than often recently but I've been here before turret testing was removed form the map rotations.

ff2 is the estranged brother of vsh that bottiger tries to hide under a rug and YOU KNOW ABOUT TURRET TESTING? BEST MAP BAR NONE
 

Stack Man

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Mapper
I am talking about vsh2 pyro and I still see people deal thousands of damage as pyro. I only stopped playing vsh more than often recently but I've been here before turret testing was removed form the map rotations.

It's surely not impossible to get a few thousand, but I find damage a lot more reliable as other classes and with a higher potential too.

It's common to see 5k or more from Soldier, Spy, Demoman, Sniper, and Scout. Similar numbers can easily be reached with heavy and engie depending on the map and # of medics.

Pyro is simply the worst off of the lot.
 

Brimp

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
It's surely not impossible to get a few thousand, but I find damage a lot more reliable as other classes and with a higher potential too.

It's common to see 5k or more from Soldier, Spy, Demoman, Sniper, and Scout. Similar numbers can easily be reached with heavy and engie depending on the map and # of medics.

Pyro is simply the worst off of the lot.
Pyro in my opinion was meant to be a support class since he can flare jump large distances and airblast. You can and I'm not stopping you from going damage pyro rather than just sit near an engineer nest outside of hales rage range then flare jump in to save everyone cause that can get boring.
 

Stack Man

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Mapper
Pyro in my opinion was meant to be a support class since he can flare jump large distances and airblast. You can and I'm not stopping you from going damage pyro rather than just sit near an engineer nest outside of hales rage range then flare jump in to save everyone cause that can get boring.

Just as you could say other weapons are meant for a "support" style, the Phlog, DF and GP are meant for a "damage" style. They should be viable as a "damage" style irrespective of the "support" style's existence.

All three harm the "support" style, and it is for this reason that both sides should be able to co-exist and be viable.

As it stands right now, both pale in comparison to the potential of every other class. I avoided proposing an airblast buff because of how easily it could get out of hand. The damage side, however, is much easier to control.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
Pyro can have a slight buff, but these nerfs were needed because pyros were getting permanent mmph and gas passer when the boss had jump vulnerability. They were topping the dps charts before.