bonkboy273

Mildly Menacing Medic
I was thinking of recombining the Equalizer and Escape Plan into one weapon. So that the weapon would be a little bit more popular, only a handful of people use the Escape Plan and the Equalizer is nearly non existent.

Along with that, I was hoping if we could make it so that Disciplinary Action would make it so that when the soldier hits the hale, it would make it so that only the soldier gets sped up. This is so that it is something not only useful for hitting allies with but also something the soldier can use for his own benefit. In all honesty though, I always wanted to see this in action because I like weird builds, so this one is purely from myself.

Both weapon suggestions are based on the soldiers mobility on the ground and more utility of his melee weapon rather than only using a rocket launcher.
 
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shoooooooooooooooo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
i don't think anyone is gonna risk a melee on hale just for a speed boost, especially considering soldier can just jump away anyway.
 

bonkboy273

Mildly Menacing Medic
Rocket jumping costs health in return for mobility, something you can't always fall back on when Health packs are scarce due to either too many soldiers rocket jumping or the map being designed to not have that many available.

Also, soldiers do consider melee quite a bit when it comes to having a Battalion's Back-up Banner active as they have to stay near the hale to stay most effective in a large group of players.
 

shoooooooooooooooo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
rocket jumping takes health, and gets you very far. A speed boost (which you'll probably just use in combination with a rocket jump anyway) is got by risking ALL of your health to land a melee.
 

Sakiko

Moderator
Contributor
Hale finds it hard enouth to kill rocket jumping sollys a solly that can with this whack hale run fast away rocket jump escape when hale gets up close will extend the game further.

I would consider it worth a thought if it takes off 50hp to add to the hp risk to balance out its use so then a solly gets 1 whack run, rocket jump escape before he needs to grab hp or die
 

bonkboy273

Mildly Menacing Medic
There's still going to be a moment where you'll be too low health to be able to rocket jump and a market gardener will not get you out of that situation. Soldiers usually end killing themselves at that point.

Also I believe that this weapon would compliment buff banners way more, which would make a Battalions soldier more versatile since it gives them the mobility that they need to get around while the banner is active.
 

KinCryos

TF2 Admin
Contributor
Mapper
A speed boost (which you'll probably just use in combination with a rocket jump anyway) is got by risking ALL of your health to land a melee.
there's a rare situation where it can be useful.

because of a bug with the increased range of the Disciplinary Action, a soldier can hit anyone who's right behind him. a soldier could therefore get the boost if Hale is closing in on him as he is running away from Hale. this may even be the only way to survive if the soldier also happens to be out of rockets
 

bonkboy273

Mildly Menacing Medic
In its current state, the only time it is useful is when the soldier is around other players and boosting their speed. But the soldier is not going to be around other people at all times even when the buff banner is equipped. When you're one of the very few remaining people due to a dead team or people hiding/camping you won't have anything to fall back to at all other than rocket jumping. Which also limited if the map's design or situation makes it so that you cannot replenish your health in time to even be able to keep yourself alive for longer.

The soldier already sacrifices a lot of potential damage if he were to put away the Market Gardener which would be the soldier's current primary source of damage with a decent player. As opposed to its raw damage. There should also be weapons that grant utility to the class in terms of ground mobility, which the soldier does not have at all.

btw KinCryos, the extended range on the whip is not a bug. Valve intended for it to have extra range so it can be used in order to boost allies movement speed, the increased range simply extends to hitting enemies aswell, but that's why it also has reduced damage to follow up on that special.

I believe it would be nice for a change if the soldier had more options to pick from that would change the way you would play said class, as many other weapons have that add a gimmick.
 

Fragancia

Truly Feared Pyro
Contributor
Mapper
there's a rare situation where it can be useful.

because of a bug with the increased range of the Disciplinary Action, a soldier can hit anyone who's right behind him. a soldier could therefore get the boost if Hale is closing in on him as he is running away from Hale. this may even be the only way to survive if the soldier also happens to be out of rockets

The increased melee bounds is intentional, you would know this if you were to look at items_game.txt located at tf/scripts/items

"447"
{
"name" "The Disciplinary Action"
"first_sale_date" "2011/05/10"
"item_class" "tf_weapon_shovel"
"craft_class" "weapon"
"craft_material_type" "weapon"
"capabilities"
{
"nameable" "1"
"can_craft_count" "1"
}
"tags"
{
"can_deal_damage" "1"
"can_be_equipped_by_soldier_or_demo" "1"
"can_deal_critical_damage" "1"
}
"show_in_armory" "1"
"item_type_name" "#TF_Weapon_Riding_Crop"
"item_name" "#TF_DisciplinaryAction"
"item_logname" "disciplinary_action"
"item_iconname" "disciplinary_action"
"item_slot" "melee"
"item_quality" "unique"
"propername" "1"
"min_ilevel" "10"
"max_ilevel" "10"
"image_inventory" "backpack/weapons/c_models/c_riding_crop/c_riding_crop"
"image_inventory_size_w" "128"
"image_inventory_size_h" "82"
"model_player" "models/weapons/c_models/c_riding_crop/c_riding_crop.mdl"
"attach_to_hands" "1"
"used_by_classes"
{
"soldier" "1"
}
"static_attrs"
{
"min_viewmodel_offset" "10 -5 -20"
}
"attributes"
{
"damage penalty"
{
"attribute_class" "mult_dmg"
"value" "0.75"
}
"speed buff ally"
{
"attribute_class" "speed_buff_ally"
"value" "1"
}
"melee range multiplier"
{
"attribute_class" "melee_range_multiplier"
"value" "1.7"
}
"melee bounds multiplier" //Increases Soldier's melee bounds by 55%
{
"attribute_class" "melee_bounds_multiplier"
"value" "1.55"
}

"kill eater score type 2"
{
"attribute_class" "kill_eater_score_type_2"
"value" "66"
}
}
 

KinCryos

TF2 Admin
Contributor
Mapper
The increased melee bounds is intentional, you would know this if you were to look at items_game.txt located at tf/scripts/items

"447"
{
"name" "The Disciplinary Action"
"first_sale_date" "2011/05/10"
"item_class" "tf_weapon_shovel"
"craft_class" "weapon"
"craft_material_type" "weapon"
"capabilities"
{
"nameable" "1"
"can_craft_count" "1"
}
"tags"
{
"can_deal_damage" "1"
"can_be_equipped_by_soldier_or_demo" "1"
"can_deal_critical_damage" "1"
}
"show_in_armory" "1"
"item_type_name" "#TF_Weapon_Riding_Crop"
"item_name" "#TF_DisciplinaryAction"
"item_logname" "disciplinary_action"
"item_iconname" "disciplinary_action"
"item_slot" "melee"
"item_quality" "unique"
"propername" "1"
"min_ilevel" "10"
"max_ilevel" "10"
"image_inventory" "backpack/weapons/c_models/c_riding_crop/c_riding_crop"
"image_inventory_size_w" "128"
"image_inventory_size_h" "82"
"model_player" "models/weapons/c_models/c_riding_crop/c_riding_crop.mdl"
"attach_to_hands" "1"
"used_by_classes"
{
"soldier" "1"
}
"static_attrs"
{
"min_viewmodel_offset" "10 -5 -20"
}
"attributes"
{
"damage penalty"
{
"attribute_class" "mult_dmg"
"value" "0.75"
}
"speed buff ally"
{
"attribute_class" "speed_buff_ally"
"value" "1"
}
"melee range multiplier"
{
"attribute_class" "melee_range_multiplier"
"value" "1.7"
}
"melee bounds multiplier" //Increases Soldier's melee bounds by 55%
{
"attribute_class" "melee_bounds_multiplier"
"value" "1.55"
}

"kill eater score type 2"
{
"attribute_class" "kill_eater_score_type_2"
"value" "66"
}
}
huh. didn't see that. I was going by the info in the wiki, which classified it as a bug
 

TheMiningAlex

Totally Ordinary Human
rocket jumping takes health, and gets you very far. A speed boost (which you'll probably just use in combination with a rocket jump anyway) is got by risking ALL of your health to land a melee.

Rocket jumping costs health in return for mobility, something you can't always fall back on when Health packs are scarce due to either too many soldiers rocket jumping or the map being designed to not have that many available.

Also, soldiers do consider melee quite a bit when it comes to having a Battalion's Back-up Banner active as they have to stay near the hale to stay most effective in a large group of players.

You can use rocket jumps to deal damage to get the speed and damage buff. But you have to remember Hale already one shots and you take minicrits so you will die from Hale no maafter what your health. The only way to get the damage is rocket jumps and fall damage.
The increased melee bounds is intentional, you would know this if you were to look at items_game.txt located at tf/scripts/items

"447"
{
"name" "The Disciplinary Action"
"first_sale_date" "2011/05/10"
"item_class" "tf_weapon_shovel"
"craft_class" "weapon"
"craft_material_type" "weapon"
"capabilities"
{
"nameable" "1"
"can_craft_count" "1"
}
"tags"
{
"can_deal_damage" "1"
"can_be_equipped_by_soldier_or_demo" "1"
"can_deal_critical_damage" "1"
}
"show_in_armory" "1"
"item_type_name" "#TF_Weapon_Riding_Crop"
"item_name" "#TF_DisciplinaryAction"
"item_logname" "disciplinary_action"
"item_iconname" "disciplinary_action"
"item_slot" "melee"
"item_quality" "unique"
"propername" "1"
"min_ilevel" "10"
"max_ilevel" "10"
"image_inventory" "backpack/weapons/c_models/c_riding_crop/c_riding_crop"
"image_inventory_size_w" "128"
"image_inventory_size_h" "82"
"model_player" "models/weapons/c_models/c_riding_crop/c_riding_crop.mdl"
"attach_to_hands" "1"
"used_by_classes"
{
"soldier" "1"
}
"static_attrs"
{
"min_viewmodel_offset" "10 -5 -20"
}
"attributes"
{
"damage penalty"
{
"attribute_class" "mult_dmg"
"value" "0.75"
}
"speed buff ally"
{
"attribute_class" "speed_buff_ally"
"value" "1"
}
"melee range multiplier"
{
"attribute_class" "melee_range_multiplier"
"value" "1.7"
}
"melee bounds multiplier" //Increases Soldier's melee bounds by 55%
{
"attribute_class" "melee_bounds_multiplier"
"value" "1.55"
}

"kill eater score type 2"
{
"attribute_class" "kill_eater_score_type_2"
"value" "66"
}
}
That says it has increased range that doesn't mean it is suppose to hit behind you.
 

Fragancia

Truly Feared Pyro
Contributor
Mapper
That says it has increased range that doesn't mean it is suppose to hit behind you.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are saying here, it's intentional because Valve specifically made an attribute that increases how wide your melee attacks are for the Disciplinary Action, you can see this yourself in the game folders if you follow this path tf/scripts/items.
What makes you think Valve didn't intend for it? Maybe you're confusing range with the width of the melee attacks?
 

TheMiningAlex

Totally Ordinary Human
The width of Melee attacks shouldn't be high enough already that simply increasing it by 55% puts it directly behind you
 

bonkboy273

Mildly Menacing Medic
You can use rocket jumps to deal damage to get the speed and damage buff. But you have to remember Hale already one shots and you take minicrits so you will die from Hale no maafter what your health. The only way to get the damage is rocket jumps and fall damage.

The hale can't one shot you when you have the Battalions Back-up Buff active. Of course this won't work with the Escape Plan / Equalizer but it would work nicely in combination with the Disciplinary Action.

Escape Plan and Equalizer as I stated before, merging them might make them a more popular choice for the Soldier to use. The Disciplinary Action in its current state is only usable when near allies, making its usefulness near 0 when you are out of rockets or too low health to rocket jump away from the hale, at least give the soldier something to fight back with rather than eating that death.

They both serve a different purpose, the one thing they have in common is ground mobility for soldier.
 

mike-kirby

Totally Ordinary Human
I haven't read the thread properly somy apologies if someone already said it.
Before the equalizer split it was pretty fun to go equalizer soldier. He dealt about 325 and was very fast. It was risky but that was what made it fun. Now it's the same soldier over and over again, with maybe a direct hit in between, but that's pretty much it.
+1 for the equalizer, I've never had a feeling the disciplinary action was boring or bad so I don't have an opinion on that.