Apple 3.14

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Contributor
NOTICE: ANY POSTS ABOUT TL;DR MEANS THAT YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DETAILS
OF THIS SUGGESTION WHICH ARE IMPERATIVE TO IT. As this is a rule suggestion this will be brought up to the admins instead of everyone having a fair say in it if there are any more tl;dr posts. So if you do not want to read this suggestion simply because it is "too long" then do not even bother paying attention to this post and move on. Thank you.

Greetings everyone.

I regular on dustbowl, tx often and occasionally go on turbine, tx as well. Yesterday on dustbowl, tx there was a big "debate" on Jews and religion which led to vote abuse, player slots being wasted, and utter chaos. I wish for a rule to be added in to try to prevent such things from happening, and if it does happen (and I know this will be a lot of work for the admins) to punish at least some of the people involved so that they will be reminded to not do such a thing again.

My first point leads to how people wanted to vote against the person who instigated the argument to be mute/gagged, or banned from the server for reasons that may or may not relate to the current situation. However, most votes would often be declined leaving the perpetrator to continue spreading his ideas and opinions. This will often lead to a vote being called on the person who made the vote to be banned and/or mute/gagged, and then another person will call a vote on the player who called the previous vote, and it will shuffle back and forth until an admin is called to observe the situation. Plus, a vote-in-process will not allow you to switch between your weapons using your number keys which can be quite irritating in the midst of battle when you are in a tight spot and often use your number keys to switch between your weapons. All of this vote abuse will lead to spam which can distract people who are actually playing the game instead of voicing their opinions in a small, diminutive chat box.

Secondly, player slots will be wasted by those who are involved in said argument. Those who are involved will be spending their time in their spawn not moving a single centimeter because they are typing out their opinions on said argument, which leads to less players and activity on the battlefield for either side or both. This can create frustration to those who want to play because there are no teammates to back them up and which will lead to one side winning and the other losing. And losing isn't fun, right? Neither is winning because your team steam rolled the other team because half of the opposing team is arguing against the two players on yours. There are also other players that want to join their favorite server but they can't because they are not aware of the argument inside the server. Even if one individual gets tired of the argument going on and the inactivity of the battlefield will leave, the person who gets to finally join the server will be greeted with a bunch of flaming and insolence on a chat box, thus making him leave. And this won't create a good image either for Skial.

Finally, my third and last point will be almost like the first and second combined but a general overview of those previous points. One person will say "evolution is a lie," then the person who instigated the argument will likely have one or two people arguing against him, then more people will join in the argument because of how irritated they are against the opinions of the instigator, then the people who do join in will voice their opinions and some of those opinions will irritate others and more people will join in, then a vote will be called against the person who think the victim's opinions are inferior, then another vote will be called, and another, and even more argument with insults added. Players are irritated that their comrades are not supporting them in their objective to win the game and will call an admin, or leave, then an admin will have to review the whole situation ONLY to stop vote abuse from going on and not trying to calm everyone down and retain a sense of peace in the server. Bottom line: The server's nothing but mayhem that cannot be stopped.

Even if this suggestion is declined I hope it will be noted as it causes many a headache to all of those that are caught in this situation, especially the admins who have to monitor the whole thing as if it were children fighting over a candy bar. Also, please don't leave messages saying "we don't solve issues between other people because that's their problem" because that is foolish of you to overlook the other things going on such as player slots being wasted, and unjust votes being casted, as well as all the mass confusion it causes. One more thing, I know this suggestion will fall under multiple rules such as "racism and other insults to gender, religion and sexual orientation" but it's rather obscure. Adding in this suggestion to the rules will clarify and provide more direct proof if such a thing happens.

Please leave your votes in the poll. This poll will close in two weeks.
 
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This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
Does it matter if it has to be long or short? The thing that matters the most if that if such a thing ever happens it will take too long to calm down and enough rules being broken, as demonstrated one or two days ago in dustbowl, tx. Adding this as a rule will be a more direct way of saying that this is not allowed and will allow admins to have more authority of the situation.
 
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First off, anyone who starts a vote to mute someone for the reasons of "I don't like them" is vote abuse. You can report them for that. And if you don't want to listen to someone arguing, use client mute so you don't have to hear them on the mic. And if they're doing it in chat, just ignore it. Focus on the game. I don't see why debates should be against the rules. I've had debates with people on trade servers and they went fairly well because people input their own opinions and we discussed it maturely. There was no trolling or anything. You have to realize that even though it is a rated M game, little kids like to play Team Fortress 2 as well. They do not know better and most of the time, they never will. Admins should not have to be called in to stop or moderate an argument between players. That is not their job. If you have a problem with another player's ideals or religion or whatever, ignore them. It is really not that hard.

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We do not take action against people who have 'opinions' unless the way in which their opinion is expressed breaks one of our rules.
It is damn near impossible to prove if someone is trolling because they made a statement such as 'evolution is a lie'. This could be their firm belief.
Having a debate on Jews does not break any rules, unless it becomes discriminatory. i.e. "Jews shouldn't play on this server as they are weird". Just talking about Jews generally or questioning their beliefs (even in an aggressive manner) is not frowned upon as everyone has the right to free speech.
If people are spending their time in game debating rather than playing, they are breaking a rule already in place 'refusing to help their team advance to complete the objective' and as such they can be subject to enforcement of the rules.
Anyone who calls a vote against someone because they didn't like their opinion is guilty of vote abuse and can be subject to enforcement of the rules.
Bottom line - Problem on the server that is getting out of hand? call an admin. We will not be adding a 'trolling' rule as this is too subjective and is wide open to misinterpretation and abuse.
 
But what if half of the server is abusing the vote system? Do you think filing in multiple reports are going to do? That would just be extra work for the admins and it would be more preferable to just file in one report to save the trouble of reading and analysing multiple reports.

Just because there was a professional debate going on the server you were on doesn't mean that will happen all the time on other servers. Most debates on the internet would often lead to arguments, and then leading to trouble. And if people have a problem with each other's ideals and religion then that means that neither will not ignore one another, they will lash out at each other, in which admins will have to step in to moderate it.

When did I say anything about young people in my reasons other than a metaphor? It is possible for little kids to get involved but I never mentioned them besides in a metaphor. Please be on topix.

Arguments are shown in a chat box in which everyone can see them. Some people who are trying to play will be distracted by it and it will become frustrating for them to concentrate on the objective. I'm sure there's a console command to limit the appearance of public chat messages but not everyone knows console or the command.
 
We do not take action against people who have 'opinions' unless the way in which their opinion is expressed breaks one of our rules.
It is damn near impossible to prove if someone is trolling because they made a statement such as 'evolution is a lie'. This could be their firm belief.
Having a debate on Jews does not break any rules, unless it becomes discriminatory. i.e. "Jews shouldn't play on this server as they are weird". Just talking about Jews generally or questioning their beliefs (even in an aggressive manner) is not frowned upon as everyone has the right to free speech.
If people are spending their time in game debating rather than playing, they are breaking a rule already in place 'refusing to help their team advance to complete the objective' and as such they can be subject to enforcement of the rules.
Anyone who calls a vote against someone because they didn't like their opinion is guilty of vote abuse and can be subject to enforcement of the rules.
Bottom line - Problem on the server that is getting out of hand? call an admin. We will not be adding a 'trolling' rule as this is too subjective and is wide open to misinterpretation and abuse.

Why would anyone express their opinions on something so big publicly? Other than to rouse up people's thoughts on them?

On your 2nd point, questioning the morals of other groups or talking about it casually does not necessarily mean all is fine. Aggressive opinions can offend others and it will lead to a negative argument.

However, now that you mention about how people in an argument that are breaking the rules can simply be just pointed out to an admin this suggestion would not be a great idea. Especially when you mentioned how this suggestion, if it were added in, is wide open to misinterpretation and misuse. I am beginning to realise the fallacies in it. Please decline and lock this poll, and thank you for pointing out these things to me.
 
Why would anyone express their opinions on something so big publicly? Other than to rouse up people's thoughts on them?

On your 2nd point, questioning the morals of other groups or talking about it casually does not necessarily mean all is fine. Aggressive opinions can offend others and it will lead to a negative argument.

However, now that you mention about how people in an argument that are breaking the rules can simply be just pointed out to an admin this suggestion would not be a great idea. Especially when you mentioned how this suggestion, if it were added in, is wide open to misinterpretation and misuse. I am beginning to realise the fallacies in it. Please decline and lock this poll, and thank you for pointing out these things to me.
There are people who like to explore/test their self drawn conclusions on a subject by throwing it open to public debate, although to me, a tf2 server seems a strange place to have a political forum.
Discussion on politics or religion almost always end in a downward spiraling argument, it's just the nature of the beast.
I do understand your concerns on this topic, and can assure you that our admins do their best to ensure your time on Skial servers are enjoyable and competitive.
 
But what if half of the server is abusing the vote system?
simple, let us know as soon as you see abuse in the vote system. only one vote can be called at a time so the sooner it is brought to our attention, the less vote abusers we'd have to deal with and the sooner we can nip that problem in the bud.
 
I mean, not to be a dick but if you're playing on a game and getting butthurt about what people are saying you really need to take a break from said game. There's ways to mute and ignore people.