Self-Damage in Jailbreak

[Whip_Cactus]

In my opinion, the introduction of self-dmg to all in jb, has been too much of a nerf to the prisoners/reds. The ability to rocket/sticky jump, mainly benefits the blu's/guards, as they are the ones who tend to have ammo, it also allows them to chase down rebels far easier. In the past, only the warden could jump, which added an interesting dynamic, as they would have to chose between attempting to chase a rebel, and staying with the remaining prisoners. As well as effectively buffing the blu team, it also heavily nerfs the atomizer and three-rune blade/boston basher, some of the most popular weapon choices when rebelling.

I agree that it makes sense that jumping should be possible, but it just seems a tad unbalanced to me.

 

[l8r b8r]

I agree. I'm not a big fan of the new update and feel it should be reverted.

 

[TheMiningAlex]

I feel like the Self damage should only be applied to the blue team as they are the only ones who really need it to be able to jump and move and are able to freely heal themselves

 

[Luke]

Absolutely disagree.

You're right it was enabled due to players wanting to be able to rocket jump,
However now it points out the much more major problem within Jailbreak.

As well as effectively buffing the blu team, it also heavily nerfs the atomizer and three-rune blade/boston basher, some of the most popular weapon choices when rebelling.

It isn't nerfing, it's restoring the original vanilla TF2 balance into the game.
The fact that bleed weapons are a direct upgrade from stock isn't fair or right at all.
You should have some downside to bleed weapons in order for the risk to be worth it.

You're making the game completely unbalanced when you turn off self damage.
Valve balance weapons to have an upside and a downside - self damage breaks this idea.

Similarly with demomen being able to detonate on themselves and take no damage.
It makes things really overpowered throughout the entire game - with damage brings balance.

 

[TheMiningAlex]

But jaikbreakb isn't a balanced game. The red team is at a disadvantage if the wish to fight. Because they can only mellee they have to wait for the exact right moment. They find a moment where they are typing for example, they run up swing and suddenly they are bleeding because tf2 hit boxes says "nope you didn't really hit him" even though you probably should have. These opportune moments for the red team attack have been ruined by hitboxes before, simply because tf2 said no. The point is, the red team is at a disadvantage by the nature of the game. Even without self damage. I haven't seen anyone use a bleed weapon and it work in the regular vanilla game modes. Even when they can heal themselves.

 

[Whip_Cactus]

It isn't nerfing, it's restoring the original vanilla TF2 balance into the game.
The fact that bleed weapons are a direct upgrade from stock isn't fair or right at all.
You should have some downside to bleed weapons in order for the risk to be worth it.

Jailbreak is not vanilla tf2, therefore the balancing for vanilla tf2 does not really apply, as vanilla tf2 is balanced around two teams, both with ammo. Without self-damage both could easily be seen as a straight upgrade to stock, but in relation to jb as a whole, never were really seen as outright overpowered.

Purely inside jb itself, both still had clear downsides to use:
-The atomizer traded the melee damage, for the ability to escape and avoid guards easier.
-The boston basher, put you at an advantage in melee only rebelling, but at a disadvantage in the arena and boxing minigames. Even then, with the bleed effect, a basher scout was easy to avoid/counter, especially as, as an explosive class, you could fight close range, with no worries of self-damage.