Declined rule page improvement

[cloked]

hi I hope I'm not out of line and I have all ready put my hands up and said that I was wrong in my option to vote ban some one who was mic abusing as I thought I was following the rules but admin have been fair and explained what was what.

I think the rule page could be a bit more clearer on what option you should use in vote menu because at the minuet its not clear for example.

These actions may result in bans, silences, or other punishments.

• Spamming
  • Reporting people that aren't breaking the rules.
  • Calling random votes, even on yourself.
  • Whether music over voice chat is spam will be left to a server vote.

As you can see I have highlighted in bold that it says I can ban, silences, or other and this is where I got caught out a. I think you should make it clear that mic offences our only a vote silence and not a vote ban option and make clear what a vote ban option our for example hacking and also make clear what griefing is as it can include mic spamming and other stuff where a admin has all ready told me that they count griefing as friendlying, exploiting, aiding the enemy, etc. and i think that is fair and should be made clear as.

this is my opinion and I just don't want other people caught out like I was.

hope you can help =CK= cloked

@RMSniper
@T-Wayne

@D3xus Sensei

 

[Pedro the fabulous]

Spamming

• 
  Reporting people that aren't breaking the rules.
  Calling random votes, even on yourself.
  Whether music over voice chat is spam will be left to a server vote.

Spamming is done through the voice chat or text chat, so you would just do a votemute. I don't see how you could think utilizing the chat/voice wrong would warrant a ban. Changes to the rules page aren't usually done because people don't seem to read them too much, and if the page is large, they might not even bother reading them. As for what griefer/griefing means, I think the definition on Wikipedia is rather clear. It even shows some common griefing methods if you scroll down a little. Griefing falls under:

Harming your team for an extended period of time.

 

[Luke]

The issue that @Bottiger has mentioned previously is that the more they add clarifications, the more it enables people to say "Well, it wasn't in the rules."- the rules are there to show a brief summary of what the rules of the server are, if they had to outline each specific case then it would be an extensive list and people would simply glance at them and then not read the rest.

The problem that you're referencing is confusion between a vote for muting someone and a vote for banning someone, I would hope that common sense would tell you that if someone is spamming through the microphone then the correct action would be a vote mute- if this vote fails (as it did in your case), then the correct course of action is to record evidence of the person spamming (read Collecting evidence in TF2, if you don't know how) and post it into the reports section of the forum (you should really do this in both cases)... you shouldn't try call a vote ban on someone who is not doing something which is bannable.

I've come up with something which may solve this problem somewhat by removing confusion over what commands are to be used for what purpose, link to suggestion

+0, I'm always for clarification- however Bottiger is right when he talks about the importance of a short rules page. In addition as I mentioned, if you make the rules extensive then people will abuse every slight bullet point which is missing.

 

[Luke]

Spamming is done through the voice chat or text chat, so you would just do a votemute. I don't see how you could think utilizing the chat/voice wrong would warrant a ban. Changes to the rules page aren't usually done because people don't seem to read them too much, and if the page is large, they might not even bother reading them. As for what griefer/griefing means, I think the definition on Wikipedia is rather clear. It even shows some common griefing methods if you scroll down a little. Griefing falls under:

Skial do not use the word "griefing" whenever possible, I think this is intentional because the definition of it is constantly expanding- though it should be fairly clear that someone who is spamming through the microphone should be vote muted rather than vote banned. Furthermore your Wikipedia link is not useful, I had someone argue with me for quite some time over this matter- your link states:

Spamming a voice or text chat channel to inconvenience, harass or annoy other players.

 

[Pedro the fabulous]

Skial do not use the word "griefing" whenever possible, I think this is intentional because the definition of it is constantly expanding- though it should be fairly clear that someone who is spamming through the microphone should be vote muted rather than vote banned. Furthermore your Wikipedia link is not useful, I had someone argue with me for quite some time over this matter- your link states:[...]

I agree on why "griefing" isn't used, and the links were really only there to give an idea of what's not allowed. If we were to follow just the term "griefing" as rule-breaking, then many fights would happen over whether X action is griefing or not.
+0

 

[cloked]

ive talked to luke and he came up with a better idea involving the vote menu option and I think this would be the better idea
https://www.skial.com/threads/improvements-to-votemenu.66850/