Declined Remove bot and change prefix back to dr (parkour ny)

[Pot Head Wabbit]

Recently skial made an attempt to make a hardcore/parkour orientated deathrun server with mixed to negative reviews, it seems the main problem most players have is the naming convention and the lack of blu enemies to activate bosses and traps. The idea for a hardcore deathrun server is a great idea but I personally think it was implemented poorly, my suggestion would be to change the prefix back to dr instead of par and remove the bot from blu so maps like cybertower are actually beatable. At the end of the day the server is still a dr server even if most players use the word parkour when describing the maps on there, and in that case it should be setup the same as the deathrun servers, a name change might also be in order but that's one of the smallest problems the server faces in comparison to the problem with the blu bot and the par prefix.

 

[Bottiger]

Never seen someone go entirely against community consensus and just do their own thing just because. Especially in the current state of tf2 community servers where players are already hard to come by.

I've already explained why, it isn't "just because". Mixing the 2 types was damaging the main player base.

 

[Elder Pybara]

I've already explained why, it isn't "just because". Mixing the 2 types was damaging the main player base.

It seems like a lot of people disagree with that afaik, but what do I know? I don't really play deathrun that much anyways.

 

[「Coronarena」]

Well lads we tried, but it's official. The maps on that server are not DR maps, never have been!

 

[dr_Dee]

I've already explained why, it isn't "just because". Mixing the 2 types was damaging the main player base.

I don't understand this. It seems to me like dividing the player base, forcing one side to use a name they don't want nor feel like it describes their preferred way of playing, is more damaging. If it is parkour, why is nighttown included, but not playstation? They both have parkour elements, but they are much more trap focused than maps like neonoir. If you are going to separate map pools by this kind of distinction, it should at least be consistent. Why should I have to go to another server to play a map that is so similar in gameplay? Surely because it's harder, not because it's parkour.

Given CT suggested the server change (for hardcore, NOT parkour) on Thursday, and it was implemented in as short a time as 3 days, without prior quality testing (broken sound, poor bot implementation) or feedback from neither players nor mappers, the implementation of "parkour" seems rushed and in poor taste. I know you've closed the suggestion, and I know I can't move you, but I wanted to get my thoughts out there.

 

[Maximus7]

I've already explained why, it isn't "just because". Mixing the 2 types was damaging the main player base.

These maps were in the main rotation for in some cases over 5 years and we suddenly decided they are "damaging the main player base"? Really? Many people still want to play these maps, actually, but they aren't going anywhere outside of the well known DR server.

I would say chasing off the players who like these maps and instantly rejecting suggestions would be more damaging.

 

[Bottiger]

I don't understand this. It seems to me like dividing the player base, forcing one side to use a name they don't want nor feel like it describes their preferred way of playing, is more damaging.

I don't see how it is more damaging.

The split in player base is something like 10% and 90%? (no idea what the true numbers are, this is just a ballpark guess). Is it worth it to force 10% of the player base into their own place so they don't bother the other 90%? And by their own complaints, they don't want to mix with the other 90%, calling them braindead corridor map lovers.

I don't know how you can argue this is a bad idea.

If it is parkour, why is nighttown included, but not playstation? They both have parkour elements, but they are much more trap focused than maps like neonoir. If you are going to separate map pools by this kind of distinction, it should at least be consistent. Why should I have to go to another server to play a map that is so similar in gameplay? Surely because it's harder, not because it's parkour.

A line has to be drawn somewhere and that is where we draw it. In my opinion there is way more parkour in nightown.

Given CT suggested the server change (for hardcore, NOT parkour) on Thursday, and it was implemented in as short a time as 3 days, without prior quality testing (broken sound, poor bot implementation) or feedback from neither players nor mappers

This decision wasn't made in 3 days. People have been complaining for years about parkour maps, and the parkour players have been complaining for years about "brain dead corridor players" and saying that I keep removing "good maps" when their parkour map stops being popular simply due to being new.

I really don't get what the issue is, unless the parkour players still wants to leech off the main deathrun playerbase. There's only 8 maps in the rotation, downloading them again is going to take you what, like 5 minutes? And then you never have to do it again.

 

[Bottiger]

It seems like a lot of people disagree with that afaik, but what do I know? I don't really play deathrun that much anyways.

Yes you shouldn't be trying to insert yourself in this argument when you don't know the details. Most of the people here are parkour type lovers that are mad about this change because they are now realizing that few people want to play their maps (seeing how dead the server is) and want to go back to leeching off the main deathrun population that don't share the same preferences.

 

[Maximus7]

This decision wasn't made in 3 days. People have been complaining for years about parkour maps, and the parkour players have been complaining for years about "brain dead corridor players" and saying that I keep removing "good maps" when their parkour map stops being popular simply due to being new.

I really don't get what the issue is, unless the parkour players still wants to leech off the main deathrun playerbase. There's only 8 maps in the rotation, downloading them again is going to take you what, like 5 minutes? And then you never have to do it again.

Most of these maps existed for years in the rotation, and some were consistently some of the most overplayed. Don't map voting and rock the vote exist for a reason? Might as well just remove these features at this point. The preferences of players will always depend on who is playing, servers that didn't have a lot of "parkour" players on would simply vote for other maps or RTV parkour ones.

Some of these maps were popular for a reason. We had neonoir, bearun, and waterrun in the rotation for years and these maps survived the arbitrary map removal waves, I'd assume because people played them.

 

[Bottiger]

Most of these maps existed for years in the rotation, and some were consistently some of the most overplayed. Don't map voting and rock the vote exist for a reason? Might as well just remove these features at this point.

Parkour maps like neonoir bearrun and waterrun are consistently on the low end of the popularity rankings. They may be very popular in the beginning as when they are new but they never last. The tops maps are always non-parkour maps.

Also if voting and rtv worked every time, we'd never need to remove any maps.

It just makes no sense to keep perpetuating this situation.

• parkour map? piss off 90% of the players, 70% begrudgingly stay
• "corridor map"? 90% of parkour lovers just leave

It also doesn't make sense to have a hard deathrun maps that most people can't even get half way through. Why not just play it offline so you can respawn yourself instead of waiting 10 minutes for the round to end? It makes no sense.

 

[Maximus7]

It also doesn't make sense to have a hard deathrun maps that most people can't even get half way through. Why not just play it offline so you can respawn yourself instead of waiting 10 minutes for the round to end? It makes no sense.

It's fun to play with others, offline is not the same.

Parkour maps like neonoir bearrun and waterrun are consistently on the low end of the popularity rankings. They may be very popular in the beginning as when they are new but they never last. The tops maps are always non-parkour maps.

Also if voting and rtv worked every time, we'd never need to remove any maps.

It just makes no sense to keep perpetuating this situation.

• parkour map? piss off 90% of the players, 70% begrudgingly stay
• "corridor map"? 90% of parkour lovers just leave

I really disagree with some of your points here. Pretty sure waterrun and neonoir were some of the most played maps for years, judging by GameTracker data anyway. Neo was consistently in the top from about 2019-2022 or so.

dr_playstation is also arguably a parkour map, I'd say 60% of players can't complete it, and most certainly can't beat Zurg. Yet that map has been top 3 since it released in 2018. I suppose that's why it's still in the server, it has always been the most popular of these maps.

Also, 90% of players is certainly an exaggeration. There are definitely more players upset with maps being removed than maps staying in the rotation. I agree that these "parkour" maps had more haters than your typical DR map, like supermarket, but everyone has different map preferences. More maps in the rotation should mean everyone has their style of play in the server, no? I just don't get why we have to remove every single parkour map from the server. I agree we should keep them to a minimum, but having none of them feels extreme and just makes a section of the player base less interested in joining the server.

Also if voting and rtv worked every time, we'd never need to remove any maps.

Pretty sure a majority of the server has to vote for a map for it to be played, right? If the majority of the server wants to play a "parkour" map, why shouldn't that be allowed?

So, anyway, I guess this confirms these maps are never coming back when the Parkour server inevitably gets shutdown?

 

[Bottiger]

It's fun to play with others, offline is not the same.

So you want to make 90% of the server suffer for your enjoyment?

I really disagree with some of your points here. Pretty sure waterrun and neonoir were some of the most played maps for years, judging by GameTracker data anyway. Neo was consistently in the top from about 2019-2022 or so.

Waterrun was never a top map. it was popular enough to get included but that was it.

And gametracker is hardly accurate, it doesn't consider the number of players on the server, it only keeps track of how often the server was on it.

Pretty sure a majority of the server has to vote for a map for it to be played, right?

No, it only needs a majority of the votes, not a majority of the server.

And no, just because someone didn't vote doesn't mean they will like the map that gets voted in.

 

[Maximus7]

So you want to make 90% of the server suffer for your enjoyment?

I do not agree with the claim that 90% of players "suffered" when a parkour map was being played.

Why not restrict the number of "parkour" maps in the rotation, and/or limit the frequency to which they can be nominated instead? Most of the regulars on the Deathrun server enjoyed the now removed maps, I mean I've played on this server off and on for almost 6 years but its hard to keep interest when most of the maps I enjoyed are gone.

Don't get why a middle ground isn't possible here. I mean the consensus on this form is that this decision is a terrible one so far. Pull up the chat logs from the server recently and you will see constant complaining about maps being removed. I don't see any evidence behind your claim that "90%" of the server is in favor of this.

Why is it hard to have a stable map pool for all players to enjoy? This has always been a problem unique to Skial, but its gotten way out of hand. Clearly I can't convince you, hopefully you'll change your mind someday though.

Appreciate your time though.

 

[Bottiger]

I do not agree with the claim that 90% of players "suffered" when a parkour map was being played.

Why not restrict the number of "parkour" maps in the rotation, and/or limit the frequency to which they can be nominated instead? Most of the regulars on the Deathrun server enjoyed the now removed maps, I mean I've played on this server off and on for almost 6 years but its hard to keep interest when most of the maps I enjoyed are gone.

Why not just join the other server?

Don't get why a middle ground isn't possible here. I mean the consensus on this form is that this decision is a terrible one so far. Pull up the chat logs from the server recently and you will see constant complaining about maps being removed. I don't see any evidence behind your claim that "90%" of the server is in favor of this.

The people that are satisfied don't complain.

 

[Maximus7]

Why not just join the other server?

When people play it, I do. Spent a good hour and a half there today. Problem is, most people prefer to stick the main DR server. Again, I think keeping just a couple of the most popular "parkour" maps like neonoir in the main server would make most people happy.

I actually enjoy regular Deathrun as well by the way, I don't want to play parkour maps exclusively either. I miss the variety.