Declined -New maps suggestions for VSH-

[Slip]

I understand that "unpopular" maps have been removed from the server, but I, along with many other players would like to see new maps and would like some of the old ones back. It would be greatly appreciated. I compiled a list of maps that I am suggesting...

Here are the maps that I suggest you bring back.

vsh_arakawa_b1a
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/159016

VSH Snowdime
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/170558

vsh_megaman6_b5d Definitely this one!!
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/180522

vsh_citypeak_v1 Definitely this one too!!
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/170977

VSH Aperture, couldn't find a link to the map

VSH_Warebloom (original), also couldn't find the map link

vsh_oilrig_v14
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/157199

VSH Spotline Remake
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/171622

VSH Snowdime B2
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/172670

Here are a list of NEW maps I would like to see added!

vsh_pyramidtime
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/173222

VSH Warebloom Remake
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/170943

VSH Faced v2
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/181915

vsh_citydirtbox_rc2
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/184033

vsh_Sewers_Final
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/187975

vsh_brewery_v2
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/187924

vsh_sourcewater_b4
http://tf2.gamebanana.com/maps/179207

I hope to see some of these maps added:blush:
I might make more suggestions later...

 

[shoooooooooooooooo]

i want megaman, aperture, oil rig, and totally spotline back, loved those.

 

[Sheev_Palpatine]

i want megaman, aperture, oil rig, and totally spotline back, loved those.

I second all of these, most were my favorites.

 

[Slip]

Any update on the approval of any maps from the admins?

 

[Chance]

+1 for Aperture, -1 for the rest.

 

[Meowcenary]

Any update on the approval of any maps from the admins?

Map approvals are entirely up to Bottiger. When he removes maps, he usually removes them because they were;
- Causing the server to empty out
- Not popular enough
- Really shitty design for VSH/ridden with bugs (peaches castle is a good example)
- Rarely played

He keeps an eye on server statistics as well as the game wide popularity of the maps using I believe he said a program that logs the popularity of the maps across all TF2 servers, so if he removes a map, its for good reason.

But a lot of people don't understand that. They see a map removed, they say Bottiger is wrong about removing it because "it was popular, I've seen it played a lot!" when the statistics tell a completely different story.

Where I'm going with this is the maps that were removed were removed for a reason, likely because of one or more of the reasons stated above. Unless you can somehow prove that the removed maps will suddenly start filling very well / become popular, chances are they won't make a return.

 

[mike-kirby]

vsh_megaman6_b5d Definitely this one!!
-1 played on the original server and it was just more bad spots for hale to find and the stage select screen is just another way to play on the same map over and over again. Only good side of it is that it gives engi's a bit more space to build
vsh_citypeak_v1 Definitely this one too!!
+1 can't remember much about this but I know I didn't hate it
VSH Aperture
+1
VSH_Warebloom_b6 (Got a file in my cloud)
+1 I liked it, I know many didn't but hey
vsh_oilrig_v14
+1
VSH Spotline Remake
-1 I rather have the old one, this on has even more annoying engi spots
VSH Warebloom Remake
-1
I don't know or haven't played on those other maps so I can't tell if they're good or not

While we're at it could you add
-vsh_spotline_reworked
-arena_dam-it_b1
-arena_hydrothunder_b4
-some more but I don't have them ready to serve

 

[Slip]

Unless you can somehow prove that the removed maps will suddenly start filling very well / become popular

I have no "proof", but if you ask any regular on the hale server they would say they want the maps back.

Edit: You can ask regulars like toast, MLGesus, nstorm, Ignacio, PurP, Scrub World, MagnumSphere, Jake, Chemical Moose, etc.

Double edit: If you want real proof, I can always steam message them on their opinion. If a regular likes the map, chances are that normal players will too.

 

[Defibyoulater]

I-uh Have no hand behind this -couuugh-
+1 to awwwll.

 

[Chance]

I have no "proof", but if you ask any regular on the hale server they would say they want the maps back.

Edit: You can ask regulars like toast, MLGesus, nstorm, Ignacio, PurP, Scrub World, MagnumSphere, Jake, Chemical Moose, etc.

Double edit: If you want real proof, I can always steam message them on their opinion. If a regular likes the map, chances are that normal players will too.

Many regulars like bad maps. And there are maps that players claim to like but nobody ever even nominates them, so asking for opinions over Bottiger's statistics doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[Meowcenary]

I have no "proof", but if you ask any regular on the hale server they would say they want the maps back.

Edit: You can ask regulars like toast, MLGesus, nstorm, Ignacio, PurP, Scrub World, MagnumSphere, Jake, Chemical Moose, etc.

Double edit: If you want real proof, I can always steam message them on their opinion. If a regular likes the map, chances are that normal players will too.

Most of those people you listed and more have been regulars on VSH long before those maps were removed. A small handful of regulars wanting it back, regulars who already failed to popularize and populate the maps in the first place, aren't going to get the maps back.

Even if Bottiger were to give them another chance chances are the maps would still be unpopular.

 

[Slip]

Unless you can somehow prove that the removed maps will suddenly start filling very well / become popular, chances are they won't make a return.

Well, I don't have the map statistics, how can I prove it?

regulars who already failed to popularize and populate the maps in the first place

It's my fault? We did play on maps like megaman, oilrig and city peak, not true, got removed without notice.

Even if Bottiger were to give them another chance chances are the maps would still be unpopular.

How so? People like different maps.

Map approvals are entirely up to Bottiger. When he removes maps, he usually removes them because they were;
- Not popular enough
- Really shitty design for VSH/ridden with bugs (peaches castle is a good example)
- Rarely played

Regardless, without a doubt, this server needs new maps. I don't like that the server is stuck in a three map rotation between skyhighresort, militaryarea and 2fort desk.

Skial is the #1 tf2 server group, in my opinion I believe that adding options will allow player to have a better experience than to restrict them to maps just because they have better "statistics". The amount people play maps on other servers have nothing to do with the popularity of that particular map. I understand the situation from a server owner's standpoint, more popular map = more players, in theory. In my opinion, people will join a server simply because it is well populated and has a good community. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe that Bottiger should give the maps a second chance.

 

[Meowcenary]

Well, I don't have the map statistics, how can I prove it?

My point is you can't really prove it, because you can't trump statistics. If the maps were filled to the brim with players and getting played often enough they wouldn't of been removed.

It's my fault? We did play on maps like megaman, oilrig and city peak, not true, got removed without notice.

My point with that is you're implying the other regulars would somehow be able to keep those maps populated. If that's the case, why did you guys not keep them populated in the first place? If you did play on those maps to try to keep them populated, it obviously didn't work to keep them up because they were removed.

How so? People like different maps.

We don't deny people like different maps, but statistics don't lie. When a map is causing a server to empty out and / or is being rarely played, it needs to go, regardless of the amount of people who like it who aren't seeding the map.

Regardless, without a doubt, this server needs new maps. I don't like that the server is stuck in a three map rotation between skyhighresort, militaryarea and 2fort desk.

Bringing back old maps that failed to fill well or empty out servers isn't a good way to get new maps added in.

Skial is the #1 tf2 server group, in my opinion I believe that adding options will allow player to have a better experience than to restrict them to maps just because they have better "statistics".

Here's a quote from Bottiger about people complaining about servers being removed. This same points apply to maps being removed for the same reasons:

If your favorite server was removed then it was because it was losing players and eventually going to end up completely empty. Unless you can prove that the map is gaining in popularity on other servers, it will not be coming back.

Valve servers do not count. On January 23rd 2014, Valve defaulted quickplay to official servers which killed off all but the most popular maps. Before this, we used to have every type of rotation server and for less mainstream maps such as gravelpit and barnblitz.

It is up to you to keep your favorite server filled. We have done everything humanly possible to make sure that our servers are the best and that's why we have way more players than everyone else. If you can't do that, then you should complain to Valve to stop quickplay from defaulting to official servers.

Even if we had unlimited money, what's the point in keeping a server that no one wants to seed?

Why can't we just keep the server up until it is completely dead? Because everyone would have removed it from their favorites and it will become 100x harder to replace it with something else.

Bottiger does everything he can in his power to keep the servers populated. Part of that is running maps that are the most popular and getting rid of maps that don't fill well, causing server traffic to die out.

If Bottiger added in all the old VSH maps and never touched them regardless of popularity, the server would be emptying out a lot more and that is a very bad thing.

 

[Slip]

So pretty much, you are implying that maps will never be added.


Well, for new maps, like snowglobe how do you get statistics for those if they haven't been played yet?

 

[Chance]

So pretty much, you are implying that maps will never be added.

Not at all, he's implying that old maps that were very rarely played have very, very little chance of coming back. And he's right.

 

[Bottiger]

We used to have many of those maps, but people never picked or played on them.

We may try a new map that is very high quality, otherwise we'll rely on what people are playing the most rather than random suggestions.

I will update the map list based on current statistics now, which includes removing snowglobe and adding oilrig back.

 

[Slip]

We used to have many of those maps, but people never picked or played on them.

We played megaman, city peak and warebloom very frequently...

I will update the map list based on current statistics now

Just wondering, how often are the statistics updated? Is it updated on a monthly basis?

 

[Bottiger]

We played megaman, city peak and warebloom very frequently...

No you did not.

They are updated every 10 minutes.

 

[mike-kirby]

We used to have many of those maps, but people never picked or played on them.

We may try a new map that is very high quality, otherwise we'll rely on what people are playing the most rather than random suggestions.

I will update the map list based on current statistics now, which includes removing snowglobe and adding oilrig back.

I don't know if this is true, but from what I know maps like skyhigh are automatically in the map rotation or rtv list.
When people see a map they know and love and some lesser known maps, they'd likely pick the ones they know.
So is there there a way to remove the popular maps that are automatically in the list to give the less popular maps a chance. (With this I mean not being standard in the list, so you have to nominate the map for it to be listed)

 

[Bottiger]

It isn't true. And we even block the last 3 maps from showing up.

I don't see why we need to manually prevent the most popular maps from showing up normally.