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ELK

Unremarkable User
I'm going to be refer to the 2 pages linked near the bottom. I don't have 2 posts so I can't link or mention websites, so figure it out.

If you look at area 9** of net_graph [2~4] there is solid line made up of yellow or black dots, yellow dots means you sent the server an update that tick. You will notice black dots on the net graph about every 1.5 seconds or 100 ticks. This is because 66 tick servers are actually 15ms* ticks equaling 66.666 continuous 6.
I suggest setting sv_maxcmdrate to 67***

The sv_mincmdrate is 15. 15ms server ticks means 60ms & 75ms delays between sending the server the data. Read* if you care to learn exactly why, but if a troll uses this setting players using cl_updaterate 66 will see them teleporting.
I suggest setting sv_mincmdrate to 33.333333 (source rounds to 33.333334) data will be sent to the server every 30ms, and not sometimes 45ms like cmdrate 33 will.

The sv_maxupdaterate is 66. Probably causes a stutter every 1.5sec as it skips from server snapshot x to server snapshot x+2 similar to what the cmdrate stutter.
I suggest setting sv_maxupdaterate to 67.****

The sv_client_min_interp_ratio is 1. I could set my cl_updaterate to 1000, the server will limit it to 66, but cl_interp_ratio calculates the interpolation time from the real value thus making my interp time 1ms if I wanted. min interp ratio is thus a completely useless cvar. Players with cl_cmdrate 60~66 would look completely smooth without interpolation on a 60hz monitor. Trolls using cl_cmdrate 15 would stutter/teleport as they are exterpolated (if you got an update where they were moving due north, but they changed direction within 66.6ms after that update (based on cmdrate 15) you would see them still moving north, when you get the next update they would teleport to their current position). On a complete opposite note I for exmaple have a 144hz monitor. I want players and entities to interpolate to my framerate of 144!. If I had a steady framerate of 300 I could interpolate for even more accurate player positions, even though they would never be shown on my screen. Some people swear by no (or minimal if you have to) interp time. I could only agree on servers that are appropriately configured for this, which I doubt there are any.
I suggest setting sv_client_min_interp_ratio to 0 as it is useless to restrict it & some players insist on no interp.

The sv_client_cmdrate_difference is 20. This is difference allowed in comparison with you cl_updaterate value. If I'm using cl_updaterate 66 I can set my cl_cmdrate to 46. That would be stupid because I will be interpolated by other players thus appearing 66fps smooth (unless they disabled interp), but my hitreg will be worse. On the other hand maybe somebodies computer sucks and only gets ~30fps, but they want their shots to be registered quicker, and their mic quality to be better. They should then use cl_updaterate 33.333333 (forced minimum) and cl_cmdrate 67.
I suggest setting this sv_client_cmdrate_difference to 34+


developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking*
developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TF2_Network_Graph**

The line stays solid yellow at cl_cmdrate 67. I doubt there are any negative effects of using 67 than something closer to 15ms or even exactly 15ms.***

Yes this will effect interp time. cl_interp_ratio needs to be set to atleast 3 to compensate for choke or loss. Why not 2 you may wonder because 2 would be 30ms, and you would have the update you just downloaded and the 2 others? because your cpu would have 0ms to calculate the interpolation, so naturally interpolation should be calculated in the time between updates. setting this to 67 instead of 66.666666 (source rounds to 66.666664) will knock about ~1ms of the 15ms between frames off the time for your cpu to interpolate which is no problem.****

On net_graph 4 I notice your var* is pretty high, on a full server normally 3~4ms. Your servers are kinda slow, and on somewhat rare occasions will drop from 66-tick. I don't expect you to upgrade.
The sv_minupdaterate is 15. If a player wants to stab a pencil in their ear so be it. That being said you could also increase sv_client_max_interp_ratio for the other ear.
If you do not agree with these changes please read and understand the 2 links, state why you disagree, then stab a pencil in your ear.

To summarize:
sv_maxcmdrate 67
sv_mincmdrate 33.333333
sv_maxupdaterate 67
sv_client_min_interp_ratio 0
sv_client_cmdrate_difference 32
 

Bottiger

Administrator
Thanks for your concern but our server settings have been refined over 5 years of testing. There is nothing that can be done to improve them. We have tried literally every combination you can think of, including the ones you mentioned.

Setting sv_maxcmdrate to 67 does nothing, it is locked at 66 by the game and cannot be bypassed. This does not cause any stutter. Any time inbetween updates received from the server are linearly interpolated.

Setting sv_mincmdrate does not stop people from teleporting. It only makes you less responsive. We only increased it from the default so people who messed up their settings wouldn't blame us for laggy servers.

Settings sv_client_min_interp_ratio to 0 turns off lag compensation. Unless you have 0 ping you will complain about lag. There are many people who download settings off the internet which turns off your lag compensation and then they blame us for laggy servers when it was their own fault.

On a full server 3-4 var isn't very high, especially on 32 slot servers there are actually times where even the fastest CPU wouldn't be able to keep up. And every update the game gets slower and slower and uses more and more CPU.
 
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ELK

Unremarkable User
How do I contact the owner? Who will read the valve developer webpages and stab a pencil in your ear. interpolation has nothing to do with lag compensation. 3~4 isn't high? maybe you should check choke

Source supports multi-core and multi-threading. WTF? lol
 
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ELK

Unremarkable User
Please read and understand these 2 webpages.
developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TF2_Network_Graph

15ms tick can be passed by hpet (high precision event timer). This can be done by running windows media player or running srcdsfpsboost, although hard to find the right one because many fakes are out there
 

Bottiger

Administrator
We have read those pages many times. It seems like you just read them for the first time and trying to theorize some settings when you don't even know how they actually work or even testing them. We have tested every single combination already.

The last thing I will say is that we aren't going to use your settings.
 
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ELK

Unremarkable User
Thanks for your concern but our server settings have been refined over 5 years of testing. There is nothing that can be done to improve them. We have tried literally every combination you can think of, including the ones you mentioned.

Setting sv_maxcmdrate to 67 does nothing, it is locked at 66 by the game and cannot be bypassed. This does not cause any stutter. Any time inbetween updates received from the server are linearly interpolated.

Setting sv_mincmdrate does not stop people from teleporting. It only makes you less responsive. We only increased it from the default so people who messed up their settings wouldn't blame us for laggy servers.

Settings sv_client_min_interp_ratio to 0 turns off lag compensation. Unless you have 0 ping you will complain about lag. There are many people who download settings off the internet which turns off your lag compensation and then they blame us for laggy servers when it was their own fault.

On a full server 3-4 var isn't very high, especially on 32 slot servers there are actually times where even the fastest CPU wouldn't be able to keep up. And every update the game gets slower and slower and uses more and more CPU.

TF2 is locked to 15ms ticks, or 66.666666, but you could set sv_maxcmdrate to 100. The server would still run at 66.666666 but you send your data every 15ms instead of every 15ms miss one for a 30ms jap every 1.5sec as seen on the net graph. I can set my cl_updaterate to 10000 and my cl_interp_ratio to 1 for an interpolation time of 0.1ms. The server will limit my update rate to 66 but my interpolation time will stay 0.1ms. As seen on area 9 of the net graph my 5820k cpu can not within 0.1msec and sometimes cannot interpolate in 15.15msec.

I do not see any stutter because my game is constantly 144fps, but the server registers my inputs every 15ms besides that jap. The time between updates if a client is sending 15 commands a second is 66.67ms. If I use cl_updaterate 66 and cl_interp_ratio 2 my interpolation time is 30.3ms. I would not interpolate the client using 15 cl_cmdrate and instead exterpolate them, which if exterpolation guesses wrong their position has to be corrected thus they are able to teleport a maximum of 66.67ms.

Interpolation has nothing to do with lag compensation settings. The server can enable or disable lag compensation with sv_unlag . A client can enable or disable lag compensation with cl_lagcompensation. Yes unless you have an extremely low ping like 0 lag could be complained about.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_compensation

Var is standard deviance of frame time in the last 50 frames. An average. Your server has to generate a frame every 16.67ms for cl_updaterate 66 users. I know the frame time increases beyond 16.67ms sometimes because there is choke not caused by my computer, bandwidth, or bandwidth settings. I've played on servers with 32 players and never experienced choke or loss. Their var stayed around 1msec. Like I said 3-4 is kind of high and your servers do experience minor choke under heavy stress. I do not expect you to upgrade your servers the difference would be minimal.
 

Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
TF2 is locked to 15ms ticks, or 66.666666, but you could set sv_maxcmdrate to 100. The server would still run at 66.666666 but you send your data every 15ms instead of every 15ms miss one for a 30ms jap every 1.5sec as seen on the net graph. I can set my cl_updaterate to 10000 and my cl_interp_ratio to 1 for an interpolation time of 0.1ms. The server will limit my update rate to 66 but my interpolation time will stay 0.1ms. As seen on area 9 of the net graph my 5820k cpu can not within 0.1msec and sometimes cannot interpolate in 15.15msec.

I do not see any stutter because my game is constantly 144fps, but the server registers my inputs every 15ms besides that jap. The time between updates if a client is sending 15 commands a second is 66.67ms. If I use cl_updaterate 66 and cl_interp_ratio 2 my interpolation time is 30.3ms. I would not interpolate the client using 15 cl_cmdrate and instead exterpolate them, which if exterpolation guesses wrong their position has to be corrected thus they are able to teleport a maximum of 66.67ms.

Interpolation has nothing to do with lag compensation settings. The server can enable or disable lag compensation with sv_unlag . A client can enable or disable lag compensation with cl_lagcompensation. Yes unless you have an extremely low ping like 0 lag could be complained about.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_compensation

Var is standard deviance of frame time in the last 50 frames. An average. Your server has to generate a frame every 16.67ms for cl_updaterate 66 users. I know the frame time increases beyond 16.67ms sometimes because there is choke not caused by my computer, bandwidth, or bandwidth settings. I've played on servers with 32 players and never experienced choke or loss. Their var stayed around 1msec. Like I said 3-4 is kind of high and your servers do experience minor choke under heavy stress. I do not expect you to upgrade your servers the difference would be minimal.
carmack-600-100484623-primary-idge.jpg
 

ELK

Unremarkable User
#madatinternetforum
Bottiger has no idea what he's talking about and has proven his arrogance, and after reading how stupid the majory of skial is in the unmod thread I don't care what any of you think? Why would anybody care about what stupid people think?

edit: It's funny you think I'm mad at an internet forum? go back to unmod and reread what your friends have been saying
 

Cowboy Crow

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Why don't you read those 2 webpages instead of trusting Botty?
You don't seem to get that ither nobody knows what you're even talking about, or because you're just trying to push something when the owner said no. Nobody knows who you are, Bot already said he tried that stuff and did not work. Why can't you just accept that and move on?
 

KinCryos

TF2 Admin
Contributor
Mapper
I suggest setting sv_maxcmdrate to 67***

I suggest setting sv_client_min_interp_ratio to 0 as it is useless to restrict it & some players insist on no interp.

developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking*
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking said:
It is not possible to change tickrate on TF2 because changing tickrate causes server timing issues. The tickrate is set to 66 in TF2.

The snapshot update rate is limited by the server tickrate, a server can't send more then one update per tick. So for a tickrate 66 server, the highest server value for sv_maxcmdrate and client value for cl_updaterate and would be 66.

Don't change console settings unless you are 100% sure what you are doing
Most "high-performance" setting cause exactly the opposite effect, if the server or network can't handle the load.​
Don't turn off view interpolation and/or lag compensation
It will not improve movement or shooting precision.​
Optimized setting for one client may not work for other clients
Do not just use settings from other clients without verifing them for your system.​
 

Meowcenary

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
Can a mod lock this thread or move it to unmod because I'm pretty sure this guy is just trolling
 

Bottiger

Administrator

That's the result of you setting your client cmd and update rate to 33 on our servers while setting it to 66 on someone else's servers.

I'm sorry for your silly mistake Mr. owner of both Hellsgamers and Edge-gamers CS:S servers.
 
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