Skial servers are meant to be as close to the vanilla experience as possible, and as such, don't place restrictions on classes or the map (aside from fast respawn and 32 player servers). Limiting engineers from building on 1/3 of the map is NOT the vanilla experience.
Up until this post I've never seen people complain about sentries on mid (aside from the occasional "wow dick move engie" in chat), and although I don't spend too much time on the Turbine servers, you seem to be overblowing the situation. Nobody tends to leave if an engine builds on mid, so "ruining everyone's fun" doesn't exactly count as an argument since player counts stay relatively the same. In addition to that, I've yet to see any other TF2 server running Turbine include any engineer restrictions, so this clearly isn't a widespread problem.
I also have thousands of hours on skial turbine and you're literally the only person i've seen complaining so damn hard about engies camping mid.
I can assure you nothing will be done about that and you will have to deal with it, sadly.
I play with regulars all the time. Some of them openly say 'I am not going to defend the engi, you can go ahead and kill him' because even to them, engis on mid make the game stale. I can actually bring you people that are tired of engis building on mid; but how would that reinforce my argument? You haven't demonstrated that anything I've said is factually wrong. And simply because some people don't STATE it doesn't mean that they don't feel a certain way. Nor are we discussing the prevalence of that opinion, but the situation itself and how utterly unfair it is for players on the opposing team. Most players on skial turbine don't browse the forum and don't bother posting here. In my 3 years of playing on Skial servers, I only ever used the forum to post reports and never got involved, it doesn't mean that I hold many opinions regarding different things.
And with due respect, I have NEVER seen ANYONE play on Skial because they wanted a 'vanilla' experience. Just because something is vanilla doesn't mean that we should blindly copy and paste it when it's fundamentally flawed in terms of balancing. Turbine is a small map with tons of sniper sightlines for instance, but you can still kill the snipers, it still has a challenge to it. There is still something for you to do in this 'vanilla' experience, and we're really going back to my initial point here. Tell me; you play a valve pub, on any map, you find that a few engis are camping your spawn and your team is too clueless to do anything; what do you do? Do you keep playing and keep feeding them free kills, or do you just leave? It goes without question that anyone would take the second option without wasting their time. I play on community servers like Skial because I know that there is a higher frequency of 'good' players that aren't as clueless as the gibus players you find in Valve pubs, and there is more of a challenge in there. What I really mean to say here is that just because something is vanilla doesn't mean that it MUST be incorporated if it is fundamentally flawed at its core. And I have demonstrated how it is fundamentally flawed, and nobody has told me how it's not.
How can you say that nobody tends to leave when engis build on mid? I've seen people leave servers because the game was too stale, something the engis and the engis alone can cause. If a sniper headshots you, it still has some challenge to it. I never left a game because I died to some people, I took it as a challenge; and yet, where is the challenge when an aimbot reduces your fun to zero and traps you in your base? There is no reason for people to play if their team is unable to counter the engi. I also know that there are situations in which the engi does get countered, in a collective effort. Overblowing the situation would be pretending that engis on mid ALWAYS ruins games. Overblowing the situation would be being incapable of counter-intuitive thought and admitting that it's not always the case. People do leave. And even if they don't, you're not keeping in mind how disastrous it would be to someone who's not experienced in the game, getting killed over and over again with no reward, and them not being able to do anything. THIS is not always the case, I'm aware of that.
On the other side of things, there has never been a single argument as to how making mid a no-build zone would make anything disadvantageous. That has been the whole premise of this thread, and so far, everyone has been acting as if I said 'remove engi from skial turbine!'. No. I didn't say that, and I do think that engi is crucial in terms of defense. Where is the downside to making mid a no-build zone through the usage of plugins? The only argument I can form in my mind is that the cancerous engi campers wouldn't play on these servers anymore, which, as a player, is a good thing, but I can understand that Skial needs the traffic or something. Not sure though.
I don't understand why we are furthermore not discussing the things I've said and we're just pointing out how people don't say shit about it. And I just don't understand how it would hurt ANYONE to make mid a no-build zone. Engi still holds a CRUCIAL role in intel defending while people can freely contest mid in a fair manner. I'm not against sound reasoning as to why my point of view is flawed, I welcome it, but to say that I am overblowing this is just out of proportion and serves unfairly to discredit my argument in the first place.
Okay so you're too retarded to play a team game as a team, come here to cry about your team not being able to kill engineers, claim you're an uber pro who can kill engineers no problem, yet refuse to kill said engineers so your team can advance, and claim the class needs to be removed or limited because you're too lazy to put effort into helping your team kill sentries?
PHEW LAD LMAO
Again, you seem to exhibit amazing skills at being an idiot and not reading a single thing I've said in the thread. I have said many times that engi in itself is not flawed as a class, and that I don't want to remove the class from the server.
But at this point, it's clear you're only trying to bait me to insult you because you got demolished for acting like an idiot and skipped reading the thread. You're not bringing forward any legitimate points, you're not discussing with me, you're only here to try to take the piss out of me. I'm better than that, so I'll just ask you to stop embarrassing yourself with your half-assed posts and your idiotic rambling. If you love to be insulted over the internet and ridiculed, I won't help you with that. Be immature elsewhere as this is a serious discussion to which you brought absolutely nothing.
Taking engie off of Turbine is like taking sniper off of 2Fort: People will have nothing better to do than friendly, and we all know what happens on skial if you friendly...
I don't necessarily agree with that analogy, but I can understand where you're coming from. Although, I disagree. I know tons of people that I can name that seem to have fun playing on Turbine mid, most of them being regulars I stumble upon that don't play engi on mid and still have fun.
