surfing cyanide

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Great, large map with many shortcuts, alternate paths, multiple endings, with some secrets sprinkled in.
Excellent jail arena which is connected to a hub area in the main surf course.

My account is too new to post a link apparently, but its up on gamebanana, I will reply with a link as soon as I am allowed to.
 
Last edited:

Bottiger

Administrator
We are quite aware of that map, it used to be on the server. It was removed because people stopped playing it for whatever reason.
 

Gurrth

Mildly Menacing Medic
We are quite aware of that map, it used to be on the server. It was removed because people stopped playing it for whatever reason.

Why should the popularity of a map determine whether or not it should be allowed? If that truly is a reason for adding a map, it should be the same for removing maps. Right now, a majority of the players on the surf servers are sick of the maps currently on. Adding more maps will add more variety to the server, regardless of how "popular" they are. Limiting the surf maps even more will make players get bored of the server more then they already are.

Also regarding porting surf maps from other source games to TF2, there are a decent amount of things you need to make them work, and be both lag-free and crash-free. TF2 has a limit of how many entities and brushes it can handle, more than almost all other source games.
 

kingfin

Uncharitable Spy
Mapper
Why should the popularity of a map determine whether or not it should be allowed? If that truly is a reason for adding a map, it should be the same for removing maps. Right now, a majority of the players on the surf servers are sick of the maps currently on. Adding more maps will add more variety to the server, regardless of how "popular" they are. Limiting the surf maps even more will make players get bored of the server more then they already are.

Also regarding porting surf maps from other source games to TF2, there are a decent amount of things you need to make them work, and be both lag-free and crash-free. TF2 has a limit of how many entities and brushes it can handle, more than almost all other source games.

I agree with Gurrth, especially in regards to the maps that most players dislike. Namely, revolution, 10x, and greatriver. All of them are quite old and outdated, and poor quality compared to what has been released since then. Me and exer are also extremely close to finishing our own maps as well.
 

surfing cyanide

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
After a Skill Surf map is added to the combat surf server (possibly out of desperation for new maps? unless someone can provide a clear explanation for this) and had to be immediately removed due to being unplayable and causing crashes.

Bottiger: "There are honestly no other good tf2 surf maps to add."

I am suggesting another good tf2 surf map to add, and I'm sure others will post new suggestions too. You seem to want new map suggestions so, even if it hasn't worked out in the past, at least give this map another shot because I and many others consider this to be among the highest tier of quality surf maps.

Also, do keep in mind it is important to distinguish between helpful and unhelpful criticism when testing a new (or returning) map.

UNHELPFUL: Complaints about non-issues in the map or purely subjective tastes
ex. this map is too hard!!! This map looks impossible! I don't like the music in this map! (you can always snd_restart if this is the case)

HELPFUL: Highlighting issues or faults in the map's design - possibly including some solutions to help improve or fix the map
ex. this map has way too little lighting, it is way too hard to see. This map's ramps don't look well-built, and I glitch into them often. This map doesn't offer much in terms of game play, the surf is extremely short/unrewarding, the map doesn't look visually appealing and some textures are even missing.

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Adding more maps will add more variety to the server, regardless of how "popular" they are

Maybe the reason those certain maps are popular is because those maps are among the very few options available... Only with lots of variety can we tell how popular each map really is.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
Why should the popularity of a map determine whether or not it should be allowed? If that truly is a reason for adding a map, it should be the same for removing maps. Right now, a majority of the players on the surf servers are sick of the maps currently on. Adding more maps will add more variety to the server, regardless of how "popular" they are. Limiting the surf maps even more will make players get bored of the server more then they already are.

Also regarding porting surf maps from other source games to TF2, there are a decent amount of things you need to make them work, and be both lag-free and crash-free. TF2 has a limit of how many entities and brushes it can handle, more than almost all other source games.

I've answered this so many times.

People are lazy and will vote for bad maps. Then they leave the server all at the same time when it comes up, killing the server.

A lot of TF2 surf maps are old and overplayed. That's why people are tired of them. But at the same time we can't make or find new maps every month.

Telling me to add >6 year old maps like telstar isn't going to fix this problem. Maybe people will play it for nostalgia but then it will fade.
 
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Gurrth

Mildly Menacing Medic
I've answered this so many times.

People are lazy and will vote for bad maps. Then they leave the server all at the same time when it comes up, killing the server.

A lot of TF2 surf maps are old and overplayed. That's why people are tired of them. But at the same time we can't make or find new maps every month.

Telling me to add >6 year old maps like telstar isn't going to fix this problem. Maybe people will play it for nostalgia but then it will fade.

If that is the case, then why are maps like surf_10x, air arena, surf_greatriver, and others still on? Each of these maps are 6+ years old. These maps are barely played anymore, and anytime those maps are picked the server collectively groans.

Couple that with the fact that a small percentage of players actually read whatever vote is on, most just resort to using F1 to vote, which means that whatever map was nominated first (usually rainbow, venice, utopia, etc) will almost always get a majority vote.

It doesn't hurt a server to add more maps that the community can say if they want it on or not. Keeping the server on this constant "surf_rainbow, surf_utopia, surf_venice, etc." rotation will only bore the server players more than having more older, and newer maps. Maybe have a community vote on some new maps to be added, and some to be replaced via discord, or this forum?

It's as simple as adding the maps, then removing them if the community voices their concerns on them.

And adding ported surf maps would be fine, as long as there are separate team spawn rooms, health packs, etc.

I'm not trying to rant on you or the server in general, it's just every night or so I hear in vc that we are always playing the same maps, and that some need to be taken out.
 

surfing cyanide

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Telling me to add >6 year old maps like telstar isn't going to fix this problem. Maybe people will play it for nostalgia but then it will fade.

I don't think map age should be such a significant factor in determining if a map should be added or not, and if it is, you are the only one that (I know of that) seems to take an issue to a map's age.
surf_greatfissure was just approved to replace surf_greatwater, which is essentially a whole new map re-imagining and modernizing greatriver, which is a great improvement.

greatfissure is 11 years old and it just got approved. Telstar is about half that age and was declined with a large emphasis on the map being "too old".
It seems whoever approved greatfissure did not take an issue with its age.

If you have your reasons for declining telstar that is fine, but age alone should not be such a deciding factor.

Also, there are plenty of ANCIENT maps on rotation (10x, revolution, etc. im sure you already heard plenty about this).
I understand that they are "popular", but if these OLD maps are such TOP POPULARITY MAPS, then why avoid "old" maps?

Look through their gamebanana pages below to see their ages:
telstar (6 year old map) https://gamebanana.com/maps/182092
greatfissure (recently approved 11 year old map) https://gamebanana.com/maps/104065

A lot of TF2 surf maps are old and overplayed. That's why people are tired of them. But at the same time we can't make or find new maps every month.

A lot of the surf playerbase on skial is new and unexperienced. Trust me, I play on the server and see that only a few people can beat the harder maps (and those people are regulars who I know from other surf communities or elsewhere). Surf in tf2 is in a bad state right now, with every one of these other communities dead, skial is basically the last surf server with a playerbase, meaning that players who join skial and are unfamiliar with surf have absolutely no idea about these "old" maps (since there is no other surf server running them). It doesn't matter that the map itself is old, if it is new to the player, and by my experience on the server, that seems to be the majority. I say that we should experiment with these maps and see how it goes.
 

surfing cyanide

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Server decided to play greatfissure (new approved 11 y/o map) so i decided to have a chat with the players
Here is a copy paste of the chat

#284 cee anide : how do you like new maps?
Goku has joined the game
Pyrofur : !items
DancingWithDolphins : cee anide, this map is okay.
#284 cee anide : better than the old version?
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : im glad they added this map
#62 [Overlord] CRISPR : barely dolphin
DancingWithDolphins : feels a lil empty but aesthetically its nice
#62 [Overlord] CRISPR : barely cee
Help us make maps for Zombie Escape! Let us know at skial.com or discord if you are interested.
[Baron] Ibo : finally something new
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : great river was ass compared to this
#284 cee anide : they replaced old greatriver with this
#284 cee anide : yes
#8 [Overlord] PJ43 : yh hopefully they add even more maps
[Baron] Ibo : !nominate
[Credits] +10
[Baron] Ibo : rip old greatriver
*SPEC* Feverish : !stuckspec
DancingWithDolphins : will you guys add Akai F1nal?
#8 [Overlord] PJ43 : old greatriver will not be missed
DancingWithDolphins : and can you guys add toast undone?
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : cee anide what about other maps
#284 cee anide : i would love more maps
[Baron] Ibo : sam
[Baron] Ibo : e
#284 cee anide : i miss azelphur rotation, dont you pop?
#284 cee anide : (◔ ͜つ◔)
some : rtd
Beezlebob has joined the game
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : this server would probably enjoy surf_horizon and surf_telstar
Terios2000 has joined the game
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : yes :(
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : i do
Pyrofur : !unusual
ss : !spec
ss : !spectator
[UMC] Teletubbies wants to Rock the Vote. (7 more required)
Teletubbies : rtv
ss : !spec
[Credits] +10
DancingWithDolphins : pop can you add surf akai f1nal and surf toast?
ss : sm_spec
#8 [Overlord] PJ43 : telstar will probally not be added because its 'old'
Skial has more players than any other community. Type !discord or visit the forums at skial.com
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : im not an admin
VietCong6969 has joined the game
Pyrofur : !wear burning flames cosa nostra cap
DancingWithDolphins : thought you were /:
LargeTall : What about surf revolution?
Pyrofur : hmm
#4 Pop'n'fresh * : telstar isnt an old map?
#8 [Overlord] PJ43 : well according to skial it is
Pyrofur : !items
Parabellum Settings has joined the game
: !items
 

Bottiger

Administrator
I don't think map age should be such a significant factor in determining if a map should be added or not, and if it is, you are the only one that (I know of that) seems to take an issue to a map's age.
surf_greatfissure was just approved to replace surf_greatwater, which is essentially a whole new map re-imagining and modernizing greatriver, which is a great improvement.

greatfissure is 11 years old and it just got approved. Telstar is about half that age and was declined with a large emphasis on the map being "too old".

The difference is that we used to run telstar and it died out. Greatfissure is supposedly an update to a map that is still popular, so I try it even if it is old.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
I will try this map but it has low stats and will probably be removed next time the map list is updated.