Badwater Trolls

[Deadfront]

Your rules about not banning trolls helps them, not so much the regular players.

Helps them? You help them by buying into the troll tactics that they use. You say its a couple of regulars...client muting two people is not hard nor is it giving them the win. They know most of you will not take 10 seconds to hit escape, hit the client mute button, choose the player you want to mute and boom what do you know problem solved.

I have noticed that the more everyone cries and bitches about the trolls the more they do. I don't know maybe if you all didn't give them the satisfaction of easily trolling you?

 

[Meowcenary]

I'm gonna chime in here.

What Ogie is describing is more than just trolling, if not completely disruptive to the entire server. I can name 2 particular people who as soon as I see them connecting to the server, things are going to go to hell real fast. These guys get off on calling anyone a retard, who dares so much as look at their character wrong every 5 seconds. On the microphone they gag themselves, burp, fart, snort, and just make disgusting and gross sounds. If they happen to win the round, they brag about how easy it was hiding behind their sentries. If they lose, they blame the team looking to ruffle some feathers without shame.

They are trolls in the sense of the word; they want attention and they don't care how they do it. The server would be better off without these 2, period. Believe me, my report finger has been itching heavily to get these guys permanently muted so I also don't have to deal with the people who fall into their trap. I've been around long enough to know exactly how the rules play out here, and unfortunately, they are technically not doing anything that an admin can action against and I believe that is a problem here.

The US BADWATER server has been great up until these guys settled in. I love being able to talk with my team and coordinate strategy, even when the other team can hear me. But fuck me if I'm no longer allowed to do that because a couple of assholes have voice chat on lock down because they can get the whole server up in arms. They purposely do this because they know what they are doing won't get them banned/muted and they play it off perfectly. If I have to mute everyone who responds to the trolling, then they've won, and I can't compete against them because there is nothing I can do to stop it short of turning off a feature that is essential to the gameplay. Your rules about not banning trolls helps them, not so much the regular players.

Trolls are so ridiculously easy to deal with. You can't fight them, you can't argue with them, you can't beat them, you can't ever win the war against them.

But the second you stop giving them an audience is the second you win. Client mute them and poof - its like they no longer exist. You don't hear them, you don't see them type. They're virtually non-existent and you can continue having fun because you won't hear or see a single word that comes out of their greasy mouth. You deprived them of an audience so they get bored and leave you alone once they realize "hey, this person isn't dumb enough to feed me their tears."

But that's where everyone miserably fails. They completely ignore that simple, extremely effective advice and continue spoon feeding the trolls their rage thinking its going to help win the fight against them. And its not, because the only way you can win against a troll is by not giving them an audience.

As I posted earlier, this is coming with the guy with a furry tag in his name who is a admin. Both those things combined will make most trolls orgasm in their pants because to them they just found the gold at the end of the rainbow and that cheeky ass leprechaun is sitting right there ready for a thorough bitch slapping. I get more shit on a daily basis than a Taco Bell restroom but I'm not bothered by it because I don't give them an audience. I let them whine and bitch and they tire themselves out and continue to troll elsewhere once they realize I'm not dumb enough to argue with someone who's main reason for being there is to try to make me miserable.

If I can handle that shit and not allow them take even a slightly significant hit on my fun then you guys can sure as hell deal with them better then I could.

I apologize if this comes off as being offensive but its truly a extremely easy problem that you yourself can fix with a few clicks.

 

[ogie]

If I have to mute everyone who responds to the trolling, then they've won, and I can't compete against them because there is nothing I can do to stop it short of turning off a feature that is essential to the gameplay

Nuff said... You guys keep missing the point. I was honestly ready to drop this before Mordy chimed in because it's obvious you either don't understand what we are trying to communicate or you are intent to just be unhelpful. It is not just mute 2 people 10 seconds boom, bam, done. It's more like literally half of the entire people in the server suddenly erupting into a foul and rowdy mood on voice chat because you guys refuse to mute 2 assholes who are determined to ruin the fun for everyone. Am I supposed to go through and selectively mute half of the server each and every time this occurs? I honestly don't see the logic behind your decisions, I don't expect you guys to rework your entire rule framework, but some assistance to act reasonably within the framework of your rules to take action on individuals who are causing serious and total disruptions on your servers would be appreciated (I'll give you a hint how that works, often times these major trolls happen to slip and break the rules, once that happens we can take action). That's all I asked for, I asked what can we do to alleviate trolling--the type of trolling that is systematically ruining fun in spite of client mute. All I needed was a name of an admin I could add to get some assistance from. Kind of amazed at the response I've received here, if you still insist we client mute half the sever or simply give up on voice chat in a TF2 game and listen to music that's fine I guess, it makes no sense to me, but at the end of the day it's your community and your rules so you guys run it however you want.

 

[Deadfront]

I will try to be on Badwater US as much as I can this weekend. Since you say that we are missing what you are talking about I want to check it out myself. You also added me @ogie and you have not asked me to join the server you are in and having any issues. Once again call me because what you are talking about and what we are talking about is getting lost in translation evidently.

 

[Mordy]

You help them by buying into the troll tactics that they use.

This isn't about me. I do not feed the trolls. In fact, I try to warn everyone when I see these guys coming in because I know what's coming. Does it work? Nope. We then have to put up with people talking about/with the trolls and pray they wise up. If I mute them as well and try to talk to other people when I think the voice chat is clear, it might not be because I can't hear when they're loudly disrupting the rest of the people in the server and my communication is drowned out completely. I'm not here to butt heads with you guys, but it's pretty frustrating when we're being told that treating the symptom is far better than curing the cause.

Let's look at some scenarios.

These 2 get perma muted from all skial servers and what do you know? The problem is solved and everyone can continue playing as usual none the wiser about their history. Sounds pretty good, huh?
or
These 2 continue to shit up the voice chat, disrupt the server, cause threads like this to be started, drive away the new people looking for a place to call home and the regulars will disperse elsewhere that's more friendly, and then you're left with nothing but trolls. Gee, hard decision right? We sure showed them not to mess with this community!

I have noticed that the more everyone cries and bitches about the trolls the more they do. I don't know maybe if you all didn't give them the satisfaction of easily trolling you?

Please. If this is how we're going to be treated when it comes to dealing with the cancer of the community, why should we bother taking the time to come to the forums and ask to have something done about it? Excuse us if we're just trying to better the server for us and those around us. We love this community and its people, but when it comes to dealing with those who don't give a shit about it and those in it, welp, apparently we're on our own to clean up the mess.

 

[Deadfront]

Please. If this is how we're going to be treated when it comes to dealing with the cancer of the community, why should we bother taking the time to come to the forums and ask to have something done about it?

Man if that comment I made is considered harsh or mean no wonder you cant handle the chat in game.

Like I said add me, ask me to join the server just to spec <troll pubber> I will do it. But none of you have given us any actual evidence of what they are doing. You want us to just perma silence them off of a suggestion. You have given us no names to even maybe keep an eye out for. I really don't know what else to recommend or say to you about this. You want us to do something for you that is an ability everyone has.

 

[Meowcenary]

I'll answer your questions individually

It's more like literally half of the entire people in the server suddenly erupting into a foul and rowdy mood on voice chat because you guys refuse to mute 2 assholes who are determined to ruin the fun for everyone.

We can't mute them because trolling is not against the rules. Do you want it to be against the rules? If yes, make a suggestion in the proper section: https://www.skial.com/forums/suggestions.13/

Until trolling is against the rules, we cannot mute for it. Why? Because its not against the rules, more importantly, admins have to follow the rules. Admins do not make the rules. Bottiger makes them. We enforce them and nothing more. This means if we muted someone for trolling, that would be admin abuse and we would lose our admin.

Am I supposed to go through and selectively mute half of the server each and every time this occurs? I honestly don't see the logic behind your decisions, I don't expect you guys to rework your entire rule framework, but some assistance to act reasonably within the framework of your rules to take action on individuals who are causing serious and total disruptions on your servers would be appreciated (I'll give you a hint how that works, often times these major trolls happen to slip and break the rules, once that happens we can take action).

Like I said some posts back, trolling is in no way, shape, or form to any remote degree against the rules. We cannot simply bend the rules to suddenly make it a silenceable offense. If we did we would, again, get our admin powers revoked.

If you want it to be against the rules, try suggesting it in the proper section: https://www.skial.com/forums/suggestions.13/

Otherwise we cannot do anything for you without admin abusing, something none of us here are going to do. And again; admins don't make the rules. We just enforce them whether we agree or disagree with them. Bottiger makes the rules, pitch the new rule idea if you desire and maybe he'll take it into consideration making it a silenceable thing.

Until the rule is changed, if ever, we can't do jack

That's all I asked for, I asked what can we do to alleviate trolling--the type of trolling that is systematically ruining fun in spite of client mute. All I needed was a name of an admin I could add to get some assistance from. Kind of amazed at the response I've received here, if you still insist we client mute half the sever or simply give up on voice chat in a TF2 game and listen to music that's fine I guess, it makes no sense to me, but at the end of the day it's your community and your rules so you guys run it however you want.

Along with Deadfront I too would be willing to hop into the server to observe the trolls, but again, if they're just trolling and nothing more we can't do anything about it.

Now if they use racism, vote abuse, etc. then we can sure as hell take care of them. Otherwise, if they're just saying mean words and being irritating without breaking the rules we can't do anything other than watch.

 

[Mordy]

Man if that comment I made is considered harsh or mean no wonder you cant handle the chat in game.

Seriously? Why are you making this about me? Once again, this is not about me. I am just here to voice an opinion about some disturbing behavior I have personally witnessed day after day that is affecting this community. You are missing the point and not helping by making such comments.

none of you have given us any actual evidence of what they are doing.

I have evidence. I recorded a session a few days ago when they weren't even at their worst. But why would I have made a report about trolling when I knew full well nothing would happen? If you'd like I will post the demos, but they do not reflect everything we have been talking about, as I only recently started recording them.

You want us to just perma silence them off of a suggestion. You have given us no names to even maybe keep an eye out for.

I left out their names because what they were doing is not against the server rules and I knew you would not be able to do anything about it, like Meowcenary has been saying.

Now, since you asked for their names, I'll give them to you.

Earsy http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=playerinfo&player=567707
bricksforahead http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=playerinfo&player=3328493

 

[Deadfront]

Why are you making this about me?

Please. If this is how we're going to be treated

You made this about you with this comment.

 

[Mordy]

You made this about you with this comment.

Uh, no.

Helps them? You help them by buying into the troll tactics that they use.

 

[T-Wayne]

Deadfront has offered you help multiple times now.

Like I said add me, ask me to join the server just to spec <troll pubber> I will do it.

Obviously he is sticked up to follow the rules as much as any other admin is. You cannot expect that everybody can come here and ask for bending the rules at their desires, because they have a subjective problem with someone or something. Thats what the rules are here for after all. You guys playing on the Skial servers should know and acknowledge them when you play there. I am not saying it's great to have trolls on the server but since you bother so much to complain about them here I would believe they accomplished their mission on raising attention and bother you enough. Yet there surely are alot of people that understand your concern tho.

 

[Bottiger]

We do not have a rule against "trolling" because that is too subjective. For every "troll" we ban there's going to be someone complaining we are too strict.

In fact, I believe that one regular started their own community because we are "too strict", but I have never heard of any that more strict, probably because they died out.

If you want, you can post their names here so we can see for ourselves.

Also I do not make the rules. I only made 3 or 4 of them, and the community voted on the rest. If you want a new rule then you must suggest it. But it will only be added if it has support.

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

Guys, clearly the server can't just ignore two idiots. We obviously need to take immediate admin action by firebombing the trolls, their computers, their residences, and their cats.

But seriously. Just ignore them.

 

[Meowcenary]

and their cats

-1

 

[Mordy]

If you want, you can post their names here so we can see for ourselves.

Earsy http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=playerinfo&player=567707
bricksforahead http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=playerinfo&player=3328493

 

[Bottiger]

http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chathistory&player=567707
http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chathistory&player=3328493

I don't see anything worth banning over of that is any indication of their voice chat.

 

[Mordy]

I don't see anything worth banning over of that is any indication of their voice chat.

Their chat won't be anything special. It's entirely the voice chat that they abuse. I'm fully aware of the rules here and realize that they haven't done anything worth a ban, otherwise I'd have made a report. This was more about awareness of the stigma surrounding these two because of the way they go about it. If they finally do something ban worthy and I catch it, I will report it, but until then I will just deal with it as best I can.

Deadfront, thank you for making an effort showing up over the weekend. I apologize if my earlier responses here were bull-headed and rude, but it was frustrating seeing you nit-pick parts of our posts that didn't acknowledge the message we were trying to send. I understand you are making yourself available to see what these guys do and I will take you up on it, but unfortunately, I haven't seen them on since this thread started.

 

[Deadfront]

Deadfront, thank you for making an effort showing up over the weekend. I apologize if my earlier responses here were bull-headed and rude, but it was frustrating seeing you nit-pick parts of our posts that didn't acknowledge the message we were trying to send. I understand you are making yourself available to see what these guys do and I will take you up on it, but unfortunately, I haven't seen them on since this thread started.

No problem and I am sorry for sounding like a asshole if I did. Like I said I have no problem helping out as much as possible. Hope I at least provided you some easy kills while I was on.

 

[Diggs]

Nuff said... You guys keep missing the point.

Appreciate you trying odie and I agree, point missed. These two poison the server chat and people start leaving because at that point there are more enjoyable servers to game on. Not sure why no one here understands that and why the heated discussion just because you gave a heads-up.

 

[Meowcenary]

Appreciate you trying odie and I agree, point missed. These two poison the server chat and people start leaving because at that point there are more enjoyable servers to game on. Not sure why no one here understands that and why the heated discussion just because you gave a heads-up.

You guys are missing our points. We understand there are some dicks running around trolling ruining some of the fun.

But unless they break the rules (trolling and being a asshole is not against the rules) we can't step in.

Now if you want that to change, if you want what they're doing to be against the rules, make a suggestion.

Otherwise, unless they say something racist, spam chat, abuse the report system, basically anything what so ever that breaks the rules...we can't silence them for simply being assholes.

That's all there is to it. We can and some admins have been watching them, or trying to at least, but unless they break the specified rules we can't simply ban them for being dicks.