Maximus7

Uncharitable Spy
...or raise the standard for what makes a map "unpopular"

I've noticed many great maps that aren't played as often as some others are removed and never seen again, such as steamworks, and now blackmesa. Many maps removed for this reason are still played on a regular basis, most notably the maps I just mentioned. Removing many of these maps also accomplishes nothing - the server still fills when they are played, and they don't negatively impact the server if not much played anyway. Removing these maps only hurts the players that actually enjoy them. I respectfully ask Skial to lay back on these regulations - its incredibly frustrating to be missing so many great maps.

Given this deathrun server is often #1 ranked by GameTracker, I know my opinion will be shrugged off or lost, though its worth a shot. All in all, stop or lay back on removing "unpopular" maps for the following reasons:
- It accomplishes nothing: the server still usually fills, if not played, there is no negative effect.
- It negatively impacts the players that enjoy these specific maps.
- It's an insult to the creators of those maps
- The deathrun server particularly is never played by any Skial admin (or even moderator) anyways, so I believe there is a disconnect with the community.
 

Jermaphobe

Moderator
Contributor
Legendary Mapper
Bank was removed because it crashes the server. We're not going to keep maps that crash the server, they're removed or edited to fix the crash

- It accomplishes nothing: the server still usually fills, if not played, there is no negative effect.
Bad/unpopular map will cause players to leave. Negative effect

- It negatively impacts the players that enjoy these specific maps.
Unfortunate for them

- It's an insult to the creators of those maps
So? How is that relevant to us

- The deathrun server particularly is never played by any Skial admin (or even moderator) anyways, so I believe there is a disconnect with the community.
How is that relevant to unpopular maps being removed? So far to date, every person that regulars DR that has applied has been a trash applicant, nothing we can do about trash applicants applying
 

Maximus7

Uncharitable Spy
With all due respect -

Bad/unpopular map will cause players to leave. Negative effect

How does a map not being played as much as others cause players to leave the server? Remember, the deathrun server is ranked #1 overall by gametracker across all of TF2 so I don't see the big effect. If anything, removing maps causes people to leave the server. This logic also doesn't work as maps like bazinga are still here, despite it being almost universally hated.

Many of the maps aren't bad either. Ask almost any deathrun regular about some of the maps being axed.

Unfortunate for them

I thought we were concerned about the experience of the players??
 

Zeo

TF2 Admin
Contributor
With all due respect -
How does a map not being played as much as others cause players to leave the server?
You explain your own question.

With all due respect -
Remember, the deathrun server is ranked #1 overall by gametracker across all of TF2 so I don't see the big effect. If anything, removing maps causes people to leave the server.
I am going to take a wild guess here and say it has stayed that way because the unpopular maps (which drop player count) are removed.

I thought we were concerned about the experience of the players??
He's taking the consideration of the players experience in mind by providing the players with the best experience by only keeping the best maps. It's more fun with more people, yes? There's a reason why no one plays dead servers.
 

Morshu

Truly Feared Pyro
What I don't understand is Skial's reluctance to bring back old maps. Although they might have been unpopoular before they were removed, it is possible that they become popoular again. Even checking whether a map is popoular or not in other deathrun servers isn't a very efficient tactic, as the same map could still turn out to be popoular in Skial's deathrun servers. I think the best option would be to just temporarily add back an old map to see if it actually gets played or not and, if it doesn't, it should simply be removed again. This could also easily bring more variety to the map rotation, which has been lacking, in my opinion.
 

Zeo

TF2 Admin
Contributor
What I don't understand is Skial's reluctance to bring back old maps. Although they might have been unpopoular before they were removed, it is possible that they become popoular again. Even checking whether a map is popoular or not in other deathrun servers isn't a very efficient tactic, as the same map could still turn out to be popoular in Skial's deathrun servers. I think the best option would be to just temporarily add back an old map to see if it actually gets played or not and, if it doesn't, it should simply be removed again. This could also easily bring more variety to the map rotation, which has been lacking, in my opinion.
I imagine if a map gets overwhelming support then it will be brought back.

Make a post and let people vote on it. Get regulars on the server to come on the forums and share their opinion.
 

Max1996

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
Contributor
I imagine if a map gets overwhelming support then it will be brought back.

Make a post and let people vote on it. Get regulars on the server to come on the forums and share their opinion.
Though there's still the matter of Bottiger having final say, even if it's something nobody posted a -1 on.
 

Jermaphobe

Moderator
Contributor
Legendary Mapper
I imagine if a map gets overwhelming support then it will be brought back.

Make a post and let people vote on it. Get regulars on the server to come on the forums and share their opinion.
Bottiger is more likely to bring back old maps if said maps don't have existing problems that got them removed

Map crashes server? 98% guaranteed its gone and not coming back unless its fixed.
 

Maximus7

Uncharitable Spy
I am going to take a wild guess here and say it has stayed that way because the unpopular maps (which drop player count) are removed.
That's probably due to not having unpopular maps..

Neither of you people have any clue what you're talking about or do not understand what I was saying.

By "unpopular", I mean maps that are not played as often. You're making an extreme assumption without any basis to claim that all of those maps drop the player count, which they most certainly do not. Many of them are good, solid maps and people are left scratching their heads when they're axed.
 

herp 105.4

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
many great maps
extreme assumption
853.png
 
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herp 105.4

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
Here come the people that never play on the deathrun server to dismiss my opinion!
your "argument" is just a variation from what every other skial server says when they complain about their "best maps" being removed
if you really want to know why your maps are gone, look on other skial map suggestions, vsh/ff2 got some good ones to laugh at
 

Percilius

Totally Ordinary Human
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
your "argument" is just a variation from what every other skial server says when they complain about their "best maps" being removed
if you really want to know why your maps are gone, look on other skial map suggestions, vsh/ff2 got some good ones to laugh at
They'll add back mountain bash if I bug them enough. I know they will!
 

caya1

Mildly Menacing Medic
I miss psykopat and safety first.

I have an idea. How bout we have a special day that old maps can be voted on. Lets pick a day that gets the least activity on average anyway. Lets say monday. On mondays, it will be "shit maps day". Some old maps that regulars want to see back will be on nom list just for this day. Obviously, no map that crashes the server will be allowed, but maps with minor bugs or that were just removed to due lack of votes will be playable only on this day.
 
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Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
Neither of you people have any clue what you're talking about or do not understand what I was saying.
You're saying what hundreds of people have said before you. For years people have come here making the same type of argument.. yet, Skial is still as you say ranked at #1.
 

Morshu

Truly Feared Pyro
I imagine if a map gets overwhelming support then it will be brought back.

Make a post and let people vote on it. Get regulars on the server to come on the forums and share their opinion.
Sadly, that has proven to be pretty hard... I made several suggestions in the past, almost all of them got declined. I suppose there are lots of players that complain about the map rotation, yet never show their support here on the forum, even if asked to. Nevertheless, some of my suggestions did reach a fair amount of upvotes, but they also got declined, such as this one: https://www.skial.com/threads/dr_simpsons.91914/. I guess even more upvotes are required.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
- It accomplishes nothing: the server still usually fills, if not played, there is no negative effect. - It negatively impacts the players that enjoy these specific maps.

This is wrong. People take our server's popularity for granted. Our 2fort+ LA server used to be #1 for years and people said it was unkillable yet it died in a span of 1 month. The reason why our deathrun server is #1 (along with many other of our servers like vsh) is because of great effort in keeping it there which includes removing unpopular maps. There are people in the deathrun server constantly trying to get people to leave and it is under constant assault.

Just because you personally like a map doesn't mean that other people like it. If you really can't live without steamworks, I would suggest you go play it on another server then.

- It's an insult to the creators of those maps

We are under no obligation to host the maps just because they made them.

- The deathrun server particularly is never played by any Skial admin (or even moderator) anyways, so I believe there is a disconnect with the community.

Just because we don't announce ourselves doesn't mean they don't play it. When they announced themselves, they were subject to massive harassment which led to things like this

fuckskial.png
 

Maximus7

Uncharitable Spy
This is wrong. People take our server's popularity for granted. Our 2fort+ LA server used to be #1 for years and people said it was unkillable yet it died in a span of 1 month. The reason why our deathrun server is #1 (along with many other of our servers like vsh) is because of great effort in keeping it there which includes removing unpopular maps. There are people in the deathrun server constantly trying to get people to leave and it is under constant assault.

Just because you personally like a map doesn't mean that other people like it. If you really can't live without steamworks, I would suggest you go play it on another server then.

Just because we don't announce ourselves doesn't mean they don't play it. When they announced themselves, they were subject to massive harassment which led to things like this

The server has a lot of things I like - such as allowing classes to use some of their abilities, the VSH style, and still plenty of good maps to choose from. I understand why some of you might be defensive given how toxic as hell the community can get and I obviously don't condone that. I don't mean to be a dick and I can assure you I'm not one of those people, but I really believe some removals are unjust and wanted to respectfully voice my opinion on that.