mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
A couple ideas that could allow us to rework Sniper to a point where we could remove his class limit.

1.) Remove the knockback of the sniper's rifles.
I've heard a few people complain about this feature before, especially with how mobile Sniper is with his wallclimb and the various secondaries he can use to compliment this playstyle, the knockback can make Sniper very good at both self-defense and messing up the Hale's jumps, costing him time and health. Maybe this feature wouldn't be missed if we had no sniper limit, either.

2. Only award headshot damage on headshot.
Sniper's sheer damage output is largely in part to getting full headshot damage for any shot. Removing this feature would still reward more accurate sniping and raise the skill ceiling for the class. It would also prevent 12+ snipers from being able to shred Hale on larger maps.
 

Dragontamer

TF2 Admin
Contributor
+1 to the damage nerf, but I'm pretty mixed for the knockback nerf as this would make HHH even more useless. I actually found out by playing him that he's a pretty good counter to snipers due to his wall climb, and his extended range actually helped kill other classes on the maps that favor sniper pretty well. But if Hales are able to just super jump to snipers easily, HHH would just be worse off playing even more, due to the lack of super jump and the risk of teleporting into telefrag traps. I don't want to trade superjumps just for extended range.
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
+1 to the damage nerf, but I'm pretty mixed for the knockback nerf as this would make HHH even more useless. I actually found out by playing him that he's a pretty good counter to snipers due to his wall climb, and his extended range actually helped kill other classes on the maps that favor sniper pretty well. But if Hales are able to just super jump to snipers easily, HHH would just be worse off playing even more, due to the lack of super jump and the risk of teleporting into telefrag traps. I don't want to trade superjumps just for extended range.

Bottiger has previously stated that the momentum killing attribute of the rifle would be removed for him to change the sniper limit. (https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-raise-class-limit-on-sniper-to-5-or-6.86438/) As such, I'd like to push for this change still.

Although this change would make bosses with superjump more appealing, I think HHH would still hold a good spot as a sniper counter because he doesn't need to wait for super jump like other hales, which still makes him suited for snipers climbing around on certain maps like Military Area, Tranquil, Nebula, and other maps with that type of single/double floor-high elevation changes.

Regardless, I definitely would vouch for an HHH buff if this passes, but that'd be for another thread.
 
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caya1

Mildly Menacing Medic
1) i am okay with removing or reducing knockback from sniper rifles if it means class limit on sniper is removed or raised. I just wanna be able to play sniper without 4 people hogging it the whole round. +1

2) i am not okay with this, it would make him alot less fun to play. It is also not fair to people with bad computers with low fps and/or bad ping, it would be too difficult to get headshots. This is a casual community server with 32 players with various mods, its more pc and connection intensive and too casual for this. Big -1

I also have another idea, what if we just put time limits on sniper class, so more people can play without 4 people hogging him the whole round. Just put a 10 minute time limit. If you pick sniper, a timer gets put on you, after 10 minutes you cannot pick him again until map changes.
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
2) i am not okay with this, it would make him alot less fun to play. It is also not fair to people with bad computers with low fps and/or bad ping, it would be too difficult to get headshots. This is a casual community server with 32 players with various mods, its more pc and connection intensive and too casual for this. Big -1

I also have another idea, what if we just put time limits on sniper class, so more people can play without 4 people hogging him the whole round. Just put a 10 minute time limit. If you pick sniper, a timer gets put on you, after 10 minutes you cannot pick him again until map changes.

Weapons geared toward bodyshots strictly such as the Sydney Sleeper and Machina would still have good DPS due to their vanilla mechanics, but at worst, they could definitely benefit from a small damage increase (~+20%?) if necessary. Huntsman would also retain its full crits. Regardless of how we tweak the damage, the idea of giving headshots more damage is to raise the skill ceiling for this class and prevent it from being too easy to pick up and wreck shop with it, like how it was back when Sniper was uncapped for a little while.

I imagine time limits on playing a class would be very cumbersome to code, and is simply a class limit with extra steps. I would prefer we try to do away with the limit altogether.
 
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pugg

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
+1 agree with everything except the knockback. Specifically, having absolutely no knockback as mentioned in the post. I would totally agree with a major reduction in knockback but not its complete removal. I would say around 75% knockback reduction.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
The momentum stopping ability on sniper rifle right now is either all or nothing. It can't be reduced.
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
The momentum stopping ability on sniper rifle right now is either all or nothing. It can't be reduced.

+1 to just that then, maybe hold off on the damage nerf unless having uncapped sniper proves too strong at chipping Hale's health.
 

Dragontamer

TF2 Admin
Contributor
+1 to just that then, maybe hold off on the damage nerf unless having uncapped sniper proves too strong at chipping Hale's health.
Damage nerf would still need to be a thing, 12 snipers doing 450 damage to Hale on bodyshot would be too much especially on maps like toys