Do you agree with the statement?


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    15
  • Poll closed .

i_am_god

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
INCOMING MEGAWALL OF TEXT:
(REMINDER: If anyone is oversensitive about this kind of subjective topics that will be spoken in this thread, then you should not probably read and go to another thread. Not for )
Hello people... I don't know if it's allowed to discuss about topics that might be a little bit controverse and polemical and subjective to other people, so If it is not permited, then I need answers if this topic is permited to discuss here in this forum or NOT.
I don't know if you know much about fictional characters, but there is an issue that I would like to discuss with you to see what is your opinion about fictional characters and the objectification. Well here it goes...
There is a videogame character that I love besides her look. Oh, when I mentioned "her", yes, it's a female character. And is a fighting game character. I just love her moveset, techniques and personality besides her phisical look, but I often hear people that never played a videogame in their lives that say that "she is too oversexualized" or "She's too objectified". That kinds of opinions are so wrong and strange. So I maded a research about the objectification and fictional characters (in therms of design and appearance). So I found an article that sounded so well right. Even I started thinking: "Then if she choosen to wear that kinds of cloth for her own reason or free will?" Then I founded an answer for that too. So I copypasted the whole article on a forum and people do agree with me. (And I altered some words to complete my whole opinion).
So here is what I had written for supporting the article and copypasted from some articles:
(Before reading, just make sure you are reading this with more attention, so you will understand what is my opinion before judging and read the whole giatn text incoming):
Here is the reason why objectification doesn't matter or why a videogame characters cannot be objectified <sexually or genderly> because they are not people and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term (but still, any fictional character has free will on what he wants to eat wear or doing something). (or in other words, mainly because since they are, obviously, purely fictional and they don't reflect reality outside videogames)

Objectification is a tricky and, obviously, subjective and polemical issue. Objectification is the process of turning a person into an item, sometimes for sexual reasons. Although this is kind of awkward, because <as i said again> characters in videogames are not people, and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term. Under the definition of objectification, all main characters are objectified as being acted upon by the player with a controller.
Another issue comes from sexual objectification in specific. So long as one does not believe there is anything wrong with the portrayal of the human body (which is why these games are rated M, so kids do not play) why would anyone have an issue with scantily clad characters? Since we are talking about videogames in particular, these characters exist in a fantasy realm that is not meant to simulate reality, and is actually meant as an escape from reality. So in a fantasy realm of people with superpowers, heightened abilities, or huge technological advancements, one would not expect such characters to conform to the notion of reality, especially when it comes to their portrayal as human beings.
And to top it all off, objectification is not necessarily an issue of gender, many male and female characters have been seen as stark naked (Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2, Dante from the new DMC and Sherry from Resident Evil 6), overtly muscular (Flay from Mana Khemia and Barret from Final Fantasy 7, even some male characters in SF franchise and Jherii Gallo
from dead rising), have ab windows (Gunvolt, Tales of the Abyss, ), or have overtly tight clothing (Duke Nukem and Nina and Hwoarang from Tekken and Tracer from Overwatch <her pants>) and half naked (which is r.mika's case, even chun-li, cammy, poison and some mortal kombat female characters such as mileena, kitana and so on) and massive breasts (r.mika and laura from street fighter and Kira from Mortal Kombat Deception/unchained). How one may say that these artists did not do this explicitly as objectification, but even so, it is the same result, despite the reasoning behind it. Which means that although many female characters are “objectified” under the loose definition placed with the word, many male characters are too under the same definition.
But does it matter? In my opinion, no. Because just as games are not known to cause violence, there is no evidence that videogames cause sexism, or issues in self esteem. Videogame characters live in a fantasy world that does not, and should not, simulate our own reality. Besides, there is nothing wrong with the human body, and if the game creator wants to make a game with stark naked characters, that’s their call as game creators, and if not, than so be it. It’s not up to us as consumers of the media to force game creators to conform to our liking, it is our duty as individuals to decide whether or not we like a game, and rate it like that, or refuse to purchase it altogether.
The human body is not a bad thing, so let’s not treat it as such, even if it has enhanced features. Remember, this medium is supposed to allow us to escape reality and live in a fantasy world, not the other way around.
Now, the free will and fictional will:
"Fictional characters have the same right to make fictional choices like real peoples to make real choices.
Also most of the male cast have very exposed chest and body muscles they are very sexual too.
Also its tradition for wrestler to look awkward
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;) I always have mix of laugh and disqust when I see all that sweated males fighting on ring with equipment like ladders, chairs, tables."
And also... There is another thing that I actually agree:
"This is where I draw the line, the whole "confidence" thing is such an over used excuse to convince people to take off their clothes.
I like R.Mika's costume, but the "confidence" thing is just a dishonest cover for "lack of inhibition", Look at Rose from Street Fighter, she's arguably one of the most modest characters next to Kolin, but no one can convince me those two characters lack confidence in their bodies, they simply just value a bit more modesty than characters like Cammy and R.Mika.
Neither are wrong, what I'm saying is that "confidence" has nothing to do with it."
So what you think about this? Do you agree?
 

KillerZebra

Forum Admin
Contributor
Jesus christ people... The General section is a section where you can talk about anything you want. It doesn't matter if this is a TF2 community. It also doesn't matter if someone has posted this exact same topic somewhere else. Stop derailing the thread.
 

Silver Ag

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
since you're against the idea of objectification in video games, what's your opinion about what happen to "The Key to Home". If you want a link to the deleted steam page then I got you covered.
 

i_am_god

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
since you're against the idea of objectification in video games, what's your opinion about what happen to "The Key to Home". If you want a link to the deleted steam page then I got you covered.
I think I know the reason. I searched the game on the web and It was removed because people think that gaming novel’s core audience is pedophiles”. <--This is kinda awkward...
 

Silver Ag

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
I think I know the reason. I searched the game on the web and It was removed because people think that gaming novel’s core audience is pedophiles”. <--This is kinda awkward...

so you're fine to say objectifying is bad in that case? You said yourself they're not real so how can they be sexualize for a core group like pedophiles? You just judged a book off it's cover right there, The Key to Home was suppose to make the main character a scumbag character on purpose. A quote from the developer themselves "This is a novel game that aims to raise social awareness of child and school related social issues through a story about four troubled heroines who, under unexpected circumstances, join forces with a young hapless teacher to fight against the evil forces that mean to exploit children". Badly executed and stupid sure.

The reason I picked that game was to make you see why people think objectification is an issue even with video game characters.

Here is the reason why objectification doesn't matter or why a videogame characters cannot be objectified <sexually or genderly> because they are not people and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term (but still, any fictional character has free will on what he wants to eat wear or doing something). (or in other words, mainly because since they are, obviously, purely fictional and they don't reflect reality outside videogames)

Objectification is a tricky and, obviously, subjective and polemical issue. Objectification is the process of turning a person into an item, sometimes for sexual reasons. Although this is kind of awkward, because <as i said again> characters in videogames are not people, and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term.

Another issue comes from sexual objectification in specific. So long as one does not believe there is anything wrong with the portrayal of the human body (which is why these games are rated M, so kids do not play) why would anyone have an issue with scantily clad characters? Since we are talking about videogames in particular, these characters exist in a fantasy realm that is not meant to simulate reality, and is actually meant as an escape from reality.
it as such, even if it has enhanced features. Remember, this medium is supposed to allow us to escape reality and live in a fantasy world, not the other way around.
 

i_am_god

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
so you're fine to say objectifying is bad in that case? You said yourself they're not real so how can they be sexualize for a core group like pedophiles? You just judged a book off it's cover right there, The Key to Home was suppose to make the main character a scumbag character on purpose. A quote from the developer themselves "This is a novel game that aims to raise social awareness of child and school related social issues through a story about four troubled heroines who, under unexpected circumstances, join forces with a young hapless teacher to fight against the evil forces that mean to exploit children". Badly executed and stupid sure.

The reason I picked that game was to make you see why people think objectification is an issue even with video game characters.
Maybe it is, but you cannot objectify a character that doesnt exist in reality, but in this case, I think that this can be... I don't know how I can describe it. Offcourse that I'm against objectification in general. But may I ask who is the game designer of this game? Wait a sec...
 
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i_am_god

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
I just readed anarticle and I saw this quotes:
"“Tens of millions of yen hidden in an Elementary school!? Lies, secrets, and underhanded tactics… Students and teachers struggle against one another. This is a mystery visual novel for every gentlemen and gentlewomen who love little girls!” <--- What the devs said.
"However, since that is the exact opposite message of this game, it is clear that their decision was based on an ill informed and misinterpreted understanding of its content." Hypocrites...They must think they are smart enough... I think they are trying to objectify anime characters of their series which is utterly imposible jst to feed their own seek pleasures.
 
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Silver Ag

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
you said yourself video game cannot be objectified. There's no middle group if you give a definite stance of an argument here. Look, it's normal for people to think a character is over sexualized. Sex sells and not a lot of people are going to want to play as someone who's ugly.

I just readed anarticle and I saw this quotes:
"“Tens of millions of yen hidden in an Elementary school!? Lies, secrets, and underhanded tactics… Students and teachers struggle against one another. This is a mystery visual novel for every gentlemen and gentlewomen who love little girls!” <--- What the devs said.
"However, since that is the exact opposite message of this game, it is clear that their decision was based on an ill informed and misinterpreted understanding of its content." They must scapegoating... I think they are trying to objectify anime characters of their series which is utterly imposible.

"This is a visual mystery novel for all gentlemen and gentlewoman who love little girls!" has caused some confusion.
In this context, the word "Gentleman" or "紳士" is a Japanese internet meme which is used when referring to people who like children in a normal and clearly non sexual way.
 

i_am_god

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Excuse me, that novel is an attempt to objectify "animated anime little girls"(also imposible), just to feed mentally their perverted pedo seek minds. But also I agree. "Sex sells." But, I also was refering to the general objectification of gender in videogames in therms of character phisical appearances by enhancing their body parts(imposible to happen which I repeat ), but this game is a "pedophileic" objectification... my opinion.
 

Silver Ag

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
Leaving your opinion on whenever The key to home are for pedophile or not. You said they objectified for pedos? You also said video game characters not real so they can't be objectified. Look, you're not against objectification of video game characters or for it, you're just neutral. Normal people can tell what goes too far and what does not. It's why people complain about objectification, it all depends on perspective on what people think it too far.

also lul, you haven't play any anime games to see how they enhanced the female body parts.
 

Sheev_Palpatine

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
I don't care how a character looks in media as long as there is a reason for it. Most of the time when a character is made for sexual appeal I've found them to be extremely shallow or lazily made characters. That's not always the case but usually it's easy to tell such characters apart. In games that feel more like a movie, it becomes even more apparent if a character was made for sex appeal because you're not as focused on gameplay as you would be playing something that actually focuses on gameplay over story. It comes off as a shallow attempt to promote the game. As for objectifying underage characters, that shit be nasty.
 

i_am_god

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Leaving your opinion on whenever The key to home are for pedophile or not. You said they objectified for pedos? You also said video game characters not real so they can't be objectified. Look, you're not against objectification of video game characters or for it, you're just neutral. Normal people can tell what goes too far and what does not. It's why people complain about objectification, it all depends on perspective on what people think it too far.

also lul, you haven't play any anime games to see how they enhanced the female body parts.
Im just confused and I can't find a way to express myself after discovering about what you said about "The Key to Home". I tink that's disgusting to attempt to objectify underage characters to get a nasty audience and then earning some money in that way. Gross.. This is a pure objectification attempt.But thanks for sharing your opinion. But about the other type of objectification in therms of phisical appearance, i think theres nothing wrong with human body only in this case. But what the developers did to objectify underaged girls it's a nasty way (even a market strategy) to attract a certain audience. I dont have a problem with characters with enhanced body parts, now, objectifying underage characters, its just plain gross... yep, i think i will keep myself neutral in my statements and some of yours this case...
 
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Tyknighter

Positively Inhumane Poster
Look I will say the only time I do not like the 2D shit is when it's a loil that shit is nasty.