Confusion

$$ | Phoenix · Mar 25, 2017

I am curious as of why a conscientious objector, that displays a nazi symbol, is racism. By that, I mean no remarks to that certain religion, or even just outright saying,"I hate jews." I'm just curious why it's racism, since it's not really much of an intended attack against a religion.

TheMiningAlex · Mar 25, 2017

because nazi's were one of the largest and most destructive racist groups in history and they used that symbol in their "quest". that symbol is directly linked to nazi's and racism towards jews and other groups. There are still large numbers of people today who believe in it.

Meowcenary · Mar 25, 2017

Nazi swastikas are strongly associated with antisemitism which is why we don't allow it

Defibyoulater · Mar 25, 2017

The rule should either be SPECIFICALLY stated or absolved completely.
Many players don't know that it crosses the "discrimination," line.

TheMiningAlex · Mar 25, 2017

Defibyoulater said:
The rule should either be SPECIFICALLY stated or absolved completely.
Many players don't know that it crosses the "discrimination," line. Obviously, most don't have racist intent.

By that same logic people who use the n word in a friendly manner dont have racist intent, and thefore this should be alowed, etc. there is no way to know. even if people are joking it is in very poor taste and the majority of people don't want that kind of stuff. Even if it is a joke its not funny. We dont know the true intent so it is banned. the same goes with the hackers rule. even if it "wasn't you" you wont be unbanned.

Defibyoulater · Mar 25, 2017

TheMiningAlex said:
By that same logic people who use the n word in a friendly manner dont have racist intent, and thefore this should be alowed, etc. there is no way to know. even if people are joking it is in very poor taste and the majority of people don't want that kind of stuff. Even if it is a joke its not funny. We dont know the true intent so it is banned. the same goes with the hackers rule. even if it "wasn't you" you wont be unbanned.

True intent or not. "Nigga/Nigger," is specifically stated under the no racial slurs rule.

Racism and other discrimination towards gender, religion, and sexual orientation.Any form of the word nigger (nigga, nigg etc.) is not allowed even if you are just quoting a rap song or you are black, to prevent racists and kids using the same excuse.Generic insults (faggot, whore, etc.) by themselves do not classify as discrimination.

Words have well been established as punishable, but the Swastika as a symbol isn't. And among many racially discriminatory symbols, the Swastika has been selectively chosen to be punishable. Which what confuses someone who gets punished for using a swastika while their friend gets away with KKK logos.

TheMiningAlex · Mar 25, 2017

how is the swastika not a well established racist symbol. We literally teach that tou our children between 4th and 6th grades all around the world.

Defibyoulater · Mar 25, 2017

TheMiningAlex said:
how is the swastika not a well established racist symbol. We literally teach that tou our children between 4th and 6th grades all around the world.

I'm not trying to dissuade the fact that Nazi insignia holds great tensions. What I'm trying to say is ...

<-- This, the KKK cross is permitted to be used in your regalia or profile. And obviously, the KKK is renowned for racial discrimination. So, when people see other people using it, and they (could) check our rules to see "Hmmm, racial slurs and discrimination is not allowed, but it doesn't say anything about nation or empire insignias." So they put it on their profile, or their objector, or chat bind.

Do you see how it could be confusing to players? Which is why the Nazi Swastika should be specifically stated in our rules or the rule should be absolved.

DaivdBaekr · Mar 25, 2017

I would prefer just not having the racism rule at all tbh

Reedgreat · Mar 25, 2017

Defibyoulater said:
I'm not trying to dissuade the fact that Nazi insignia holds great tensions. What I'm trying to say is ...

<-- This, the KKK cross is permitted to be used in your regalia or profile. And obviously, the KKK is renowned for racial discrimination. So, when people see other people using it, and they (could) check our rules to see "Hmmm, racial slurs and discrimination is not allowed, but it doesn't say anything about nation or empire insignias." So they put it on their profile, or their objector, or chat bind.

Do you see how it could be confusing to players? Which is why the Nazi Swastika should be specifically stated in our rules or the rule should be absolved.

Both the KKK and the Nazis are horribly prejudice organizations. Both should be considered racisim, but going back to specifically the Nazis, if killing 8 million Jews isnt racism, then idk what is... My point being if someone is actually that dumb and thinks that "no racism" doesnt apply to a swatsika, then wow...they really must have been dropped on their head as a child.

Defibyoulater · Mar 25, 2017

Reedgreat said:
Both should be considered racisim,

This is what I mean. And this is what causes "confusion," in cases like this thread.

KillerZebra · Mar 25, 2017

It's in the rules because the community wanted it to not be allowed in the servers.

TheMiningAlex · Mar 26, 2017

I don't know about anyone else but I didn't know what the KKK symbol was. I don't know about the rest of the country but I know in my general area we don't even teach that much into the KKK. We talk about it during the civil rights section of history but we don't really ever talk about symbols other than white clothing and crosses burning. Everyone knows what the swastika is not a lot of people I assume know what the KKK symbol is. That is based off of what I have seen.

$$ | Phoenix · May 6, 2017

Although, if my memory doesn't fail, wasn't it a symbol used for something else prior to the nazi movement? I'm not entirely sure, though.

Kael · May 6, 2017

There's a big difference between

and

$$ | Phoenix · May 6, 2017

yeah. I just wasn't sure if there was something similar with a different meaning. Thanks for the reference

Blade D_Hero · May 6, 2017

Kael said:
There's a big difference between

and

I mean not really, look the red one basically fits right into the other one with just a bit of rotation!

Tyknighter · May 6, 2017

There was a symbol like the Nazi symbol that meant The Sun God in Japanese Mythology Amaterasu. I hope I spelled the name right.

TheMiningAlex · May 6, 2017

Tyknighter said:
There was a symbol like the Nazi symbol that meant The Sun God in Japanese Mythology Amaterasu. I hope I spelled the name right.

I heard it was a Hindu symbol for peace

DaivdBaekr · May 6, 2017

TheMiningAlex said:
I heard it was a Hindu symbol for peace

It has / had a lot of different meanings in the near east and far east but for westerners pre-WWII it was pretty much analogous to a four leaf clover

Confusion

Mildly Menacing Medic

Positively Inhumane Poster

Gaben's Own Aimbot

Australian Skial God

Positively Inhumane Poster

Australian Skial God

Positively Inhumane Poster

Australian Skial God

Moderator

Gore-Spattered Heavy

Australian Skial God

Forum Admin

Positively Inhumane Poster

Mildly Menacing Medic

TF2 Admin

Mildly Menacing Medic

Moderator

Positively Inhumane Poster

Positively Inhumane Poster

Moderator