Picture Truth Nuke

[Winnie]

It’s pointless discussing anything with you because it all has to be some GOTCHA moment. You’re not interested in actual discussion, it’s either your way or the highway. Your “fix” is to turn one of the servers into 4chan-lite and bask in the adoration of your similarly emotionally-delayed friends when those changes go live. You point to one thing and one thing only, and then when provided with alternatives that dozens of other people have agreed on (just research “community player counts decline”), you stick your head in the sand.

It’s also funny you’re worried about DR of all servers when it’s one of the most consistently filled servers we have. Clearly, it’s not in the decrepit state you want it to be in.

Playerbase still dropping bro. You’re running out of time to resolve for all servers if there isn’t a change. Skial will just end up being one of the many lost 2010 forums that have 1 or 2 going out of it for nostalgia sake.

DR was pretty close to being 12 hours so Cream has relevancy to discuss what the heck needs to be done. It may not matter to you because other servers are 12 hours, but not DR. Slashing half of the playerbase will not be the next accomplishment after EU is now gone.

 

[Cream Tea]

It’s pointless discussing anything with you because it all has to be some GOTCHA moment.

Also maybe you didn't notice but the first response to this thread was exactly that:

Citing redditors as a source is setting yourself up for failure.
For as many valid criticisms redditors make there's far more lies & bullshit they just make up, thats been going on for longer than I've been admin here

>You cited reddit!
>Gotcha!
>Never mind the fact that we also cited reddit as a reason for stricter chat moderation!

 

[Winnie]

Also maybe you didn't notice but the first response to this thread was exactly that:


>You cited reddit!
>Gotcha!
>Never mind the fact that we also cited reddit as a reason for stricter chat moderation!

I wouldn’t care about redditor crybabies.
That’s free advertisement. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Maddo]

I'm trying not to reference UGC but for the sake of the discussion here are the statistics from the last 7 days on both UGC and Skial:

A 7 day window doesn't compare to 13 years of trends. What percentage of all players were on Skial say 8 years ago, compared to that % today?
Is Skial market share going down, I honestly don't know as I can't get my hands on the metrics

You don't even play the game anymore so how would you know what's really going on? There aren't just the complaints you see in online places there's plenty more complaints made in-game and on private Discord servers.

I think I know what's going on, it's simple really - you think the rules are too tight and admin aren't handling them properly or being fair, others think the rules are too loose and admin aren't handling them properly or being fair.
There's a bunch of (particularly deathrun/ maybe ZE) players that are blaming admin decisions for a migration to other servers including panda and ugc, there is congecture on my behalf that tf2 is in decline and there is no real migration it's just the twilight years for the game. You are trying to prove your viewpoint to be true by showing that numbers playing in the last year on TF2 are the same as pre-covid when in fact they are slightly lower.
People are thinking the peak seen in covid days are a real reflection of the player base and now that they are going back to 'normal' and players are dropping again, they view this as an admin failure and that skial is hemoraging players elsewhere. TF2 had a breath of life during covid but will slowly fade if the trend down continues.
You being sat politically on the right, believe that the way to save things is to allow people to call each other niggers and faggots (as long as it's just banter of course) while those on the left believe that banning even thinking the word tranny would stop people leaving.
It used to be "people are leaving because this map is shit or the map rotation sucks", or "pyros airblast needs nerfing" or arguments about hales hp or the capture point, and before that it was rows about the rules in JB. Nothing changes, it's always admins are assholes and the game isn't balanced which in turn leads to blaming bottiger for his lack of awareness of "what players really want". There is plenty of concern about shit stiring on Reddit, which people are saying is an indicator that things are horrific on Skial and it's proof people are leaving, this has been happening on reddit for years, even when players were at their max, there have always been people who want to stir the pot, in fact I remember you actualy slagging off Skial on there not too long ago (https://www.skial.com/threads/skial-admins-in-a-nutshell.121454/) and now you have the gall to say:

I have contributed to this community probably more than anyone else and I don't wish to see what I've done go to waste because of talentless individuals imposing their agendas and giving zero shits about the damage their actions cause.

Enjoy your success, and enjoy the echo chamber of your private discord server
How I imagine your little clan meetings go:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/xcjnv0ioe36f1.png


Is there anything else you would like to make me aware of, or does that sum it up?

I don't wish for Skial to die early if it can be prevented because that would be a waste of my efforts.

All hail plankton.

 

[Jermaphobe]

Also maybe you didn't notice but the first response to this thread was exactly that:


>You cited reddit!
>Gotcha!
>Never mind the fact that we also cited reddit as a reason for stricter chat moderation!

I expressed my opinion & then cited Bottiger's own reasoning for why he went to reddit. But you know this already

 

[Cream Tea]

A 7 day window doesn't compare to 13 years of trends. What percentage of all players were on Skial say 8 years ago, compared to that % today?
Is Skial market share going down, I honestly don't know as I can't get my hands on the metrics

Unfortunately that's the best I could find.

People are thinking the peak seen in covid days are a real reflection of the player base and now that they are going back to 'normal' and players are dropping again, they view this as an admin failure and that skial is hemoraging players elsewhere. TF2 had a breath of life during covid but will slowly fade if the trend down continues.

Covid was an anomaly but there are still less players on Skial today compared to 2018, I haven't really got an exact source to give, but we both know that there were more players & servers back then which was still two years after quickplay had been removed.

You being sat politically on the right, believe that the way to save things is to allow people to call each other niggers and faggots (as long as it's just banter of course) while those on the left believe that banning even thinking the word tranny would stop people leaving.

I'm not a wingcuck but I know what you mean.

I remember you actualy slagging off Skial on there not too long ago (https://www.skial.com/threads/skial-admins-in-a-nutshell.121454/) and now you have the gall to say

Have you got a screw loose? I was slagging off specific admins there not Skial as a whole.

 

[Blade D_Hero]

A 7 day window doesn't compare to 13 years of trends. What percentage of all players were on Skial say 8 years ago, compared to that % today?
Is Skial market share going down, I honestly don't know as I can't get my hands on the metrics



I think I know what's going on, it's simple really - you think the rules are too tight and admin aren't handling them properly or being fair, others think the rules are too loose and admin aren't handling them properly or being fair.
There's a bunch of (particularly deathrun/ maybe ZE) players that are blaming admin decisions for a migration to other servers including panda and ugc, there is congecture on my behalf that tf2 is in decline and there is no real migration it's just the twilight years for the game. You are trying to prove your viewpoint to be true by showing that numbers playing in the last year on TF2 are the same as pre-covid when in fact they are slightly lower.
People are thinking the peak seen in covid days are a real reflection of the player base and now that they are going back to 'normal' and players are dropping again, they view this as an admin failure and that skial is hemoraging players elsewhere. TF2 had a breath of life during covid but will slowly fade if the trend down continues.
You being sat politically on the right, believe that the way to save things is to allow people to call each other niggers and faggots (as long as it's just banter of course) while those on the left believe that banning even thinking the word tranny would stop people leaving.
It used to be "people are leaving because this map is shit or the map rotation sucks", or "pyros airblast needs nerfing" or arguments about hales hp or the capture point, and before that it was rows about the rules in JB. Nothing changes, it's always admins are assholes and the game isn't balanced which in turn leads to blaming bottiger for his lack of awareness of "what players really want". There is plenty of concern about shit stiring on Reddit, which people are saying is an indicator that things are horrific on Skial and it's proof people are leaving, this has been happening on reddit for years, even when players were at their max, there have always been people who want to stir the pot, in fact I remember you actualy slagging off Skial on there not too long ago (https://www.skial.com/threads/skial-admins-in-a-nutshell.121454/) and now you have the gall to say:

Enjoy your success, and enjoy the echo chamber of your private discord server
How I imagine your little clan meetings go:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/xcjnv0ioe36f1.png


Is there anything else you would like to make me aware of, or does that sum it up?


All hail plankton.

What's your WhatsApp, Maddo? We need to stay in touch.

 

[quanlee]

cant we be nice to eachother guys

 

[lucas4647]

cant we be nice to eachother guys

It’s quite a productive debate, especially when you disregard the unnecessary contributions from non-mods/ex-mods. Sometimes, debates can be harsh, which is simply the nature of the beast.

 

[Winnie]

Isn’t the whole principle “don’t fix it if it isn’t broken” applies to cars and not when a playerbase is in decline tho

The concern is most likely gunna be shuffled out so what is there to say lmao

 

[Maddo]

Covid was an anomaly but there are still less players on Skial today compared to 2018, I haven't really got an exact source to give, but we both know that there were more players & servers back then which was still two years after quickplay had been removed.

Honestly, you can't be saying for sure whether there were more or less than today without real evidence, some may say "rose coloured spectacles".
Jungle inferno update brought in a good few players to TF2 these would have lingered through 2018.
Also you would need to look at NA and EU in islotation, the trends will be totaly different. There are thousands of reasons why peoples habits change.
For the group mindset to think that admin are to blame is totaly wrong, I think the players have to take some responsibility, if not most. Petty minded and constant complaining doesn't make for a fun time, which in reality is what people play for.

Is skial full of bigots and racists - no
Do you all get to play maps that you request - yes (if they don't have issues)
is the server good quality - yes
is it free to play - yes
do you get free shit - yes
do you get to deny potential admin that you don't want being admin - yes
can you speak your mind about the servers without fear of being banned - yes
can you suggest improvements no matter who you are - yes
can you report trouble makers and see that action has been taken - yes


So what is there to blame admin for?
Sounds like a sore dick deal to me (can't be beaten)

 

[Cream Tea]

All I'm asking is for the policing to be toned down at least on the custom servers. I'm sure you can agree with me that it's stupid to be muting people just for saying "ni" as a joke or because they played a two-second sound effect in the voicechat. There are also deathrun-specific factors which are yet to be officially addressed such as banning players for excessive periods just because they griefed a falling platform or dropped a respawn coin into an environmental hazard.

Deathrun EU actually died once already and came back to life after I insisted that "parkour" maps be removed so it cannot be a map issue when the map rotation has been fine since then. It's the way things were handled by certain admins that put players off which I know because I was there watching it happen. Keep in mind that EU players like to have cheekier banter compared to US players.

I was officially banned then and I was still doing more for deathrun than any of you because that's how much I love the gamemode.

I'm not sure why you're getting involved @Maddo, I don't have anything against you, but what stake do you have here? You were last seen on a Skial server three years ago.

 

[Metroidz]

And there it is. What I've been suspecting and suggesting all along.

Cream Tea wants favoritism in the form of punishment leniency on the modes/maps he frequents. He wants him and his buddies to be punished less and using "deathrun dying" as a propaganda prop-up.

The real truth bomb.

If you break a rule and get punished...deal with it, bitch.

 

[Blade D_Hero]

All I'm asking is for the policing to be toned down at least on the custom servers. I'm sure you can agree with me that it's stupid to be muting people just for saying "ni" as a joke or because they played a two-second sound effect in the voicechat. There are also deathrun-specific factors which are yet to be officially addressed such as banning players for excessive periods just because they griefed a falling platform or dropped a respawn coin into an environmental hazard.

Deathrun EU actually died once already and came back to life after I insisted that "parkour" maps be removed so it cannot be a map issue when the map rotation has been fine since then. It's the way things were handled by certain admins that put players off which I know because I was there watching it happen. Keep in mind that EU players like to have cheekier banter compared to US players.



I was officially banned then and I was still doing more for deathrun than any of you because that's how much I love the gamemode.

I'm not sure why you're getting involved @Maddo, I don't have anything against you, but what stake do you have here? You were last seen on a Skial server three years ago.

So the server population bounced back after a gameplay change went into effect, literally what I’ve been saying. The hit after April can’t possibly be blamed on any change in moderation, since there were no changes in moderation. If anything, punishment lengths and how they’re applied got better in 2025 as a whole, which implies more lax admin behavior.

Did popular maps get removed?
Unpopular maps get added?
Glitches/exploits became more prevalent?

You’re the Deathrun expert so you must know.

 

[Cream Tea]

The hit after April can’t possibly be blamed on any change in moderation, since there were no changes in moderation.

The hit came right after a bunch of admin applications made by deathrun regulars were declined for rather dubious reasons which many took as the final straw as it gave the impression that there was no intention of improving the situation.

If anything, punishment lengths and how they’re applied got better in 2025 as a whole, which implies more lax admin behavior.

Yeah, only after an entire server died out did you finally change anything, but it's like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Did popular maps get removed?
Unpopular maps get added?
Glitches/exploits became more prevalent?

You’re the Deathrun expert so you must know.

Well, it didn't help that some of the main DR EU seeders, such as FranGT, were banned for excessive periods over what were basically nothingburgers.

 

[Blade D_Hero]

The hit came right after a bunch of admin applications made by deathrun regulars were declined for rather dubious reasons which many took as the final straw as it gave the impression that there was no intention of improving the situation.


Yeah, only after an entire server died out did you finally change anything, but it's like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.


Well, it didn't help that some of the main DR EU seeders, such as FranGT, were banned for excessive periods over what were basically nothingburgers.

So now it’s not even moderation, it’s people not being given admin positions. Got it.

Also, a positive step towards more lax moderation is now being branded as “too late”, so what’s the point of doing any other changes. Clearly, those would be even more late.

 

[Cream Tea]

So now it’s not even moderation, it’s people not being given admin positions. Got it.

Here you are twisting my words. People wanted a new admin who could bring some change and be more lenient. The moderation sucked and the fact that they didn't get a new admin who actually played deathrun killed any hopes for them.

Also, a positive step towards more lax moderation is now being branded as “too late”, so what’s the point of doing any other changes. Clearly, those would be even more late.

You completely missed the point there. It's highly unlikely that Deathrun EU will come back to life now because you took too long to make any changes. With any luck, Deathrun US and the other servers will stay alive for longer but there are still some improvements that are needed such as this or this which still haven't been given an official answer. However, if we still had sensible admins handling deathrun instances I don't believe it would have become such a problem to begin with.

I know you don't like me but you shouldn't let that cloud your senses here.

 

[Maddo]

I'm not sure why you're getting involved @Maddo, I don't have anything against you, but what stake do you have here? You were last seen on a Skial server three years ago.

What's ironic is I've never played DR in my life bro, I just like giving you the opportunity to tell everyone how important and influential you are

Just tell me this, what's different in US DR to EU DR, I guess there is the answer.
Perhaps it's you mate, you're the reason people are stopping playing on EU, I dunno.. you said you were banned when the numbers went up in Apr 23, when were you unbanned? I'd laugh my ass off it were around april this year. Perhaps it does all revolve around you after all.

 

[Cream Tea]

Just tell me this, what's different in US DR to EU DR, I guess there is the answer.
Perhaps it's you mate, you're the reason people are stopping playing on EU, I dunno.. you said you were banned when the numbers went up in Apr 23, when were you unbanned? I'd laugh my ass off it were around april this year. Perhaps it does all revolve around you after all.

I meant I was banned at the time when I was informing bottiger about the negative effect of having parkour maps on the server. I was still fixing and updating maps during Covid and occasionally played on an alt to check them. April in 2023 is when player numbers started increasing again after the removal of parkour maps.

 

[BryceM]

Panda still has parkour maps, and they have a decent playerbase (mostly). People just refuse to get good at parkour