New Changing Payload Servers to 40 player is a mistake

[Sam Alt-Man]

I searched the forum but don't see discussion on the recent change. Changing the PL server to allow up to 40 players (plus VIP if any) is a mistake. The rounds already feel different. Areas of the map that were already prone to being unbalanced toward RED or BLU now feel unplayable at times. 32 was already a stretch beyond how the game was designed, but usually works. This takes it way beyond what these maps can handle. I'd vote we change it back.

 

[Bottiger]

What other reason would there be to post here apart from feed back for an issue?? You want some funny memes?

You're not getting the point. The point is that advertising the server is pointless. We don't have a huge audience we can point to and automatically get a server filled. We are not a youtuber.

Don't know what the "one guy" for "one hour" is that you keep repeating, that is not how things happened at all.

He told everyone on the 40 slot server to join the 32 slot for 2 days in a row. He managed to get the 40 slot server emptied out 1-2 hours earlier than it normally would have and the new 32 slot server filled for the remaining 1-2 hours before completely emptying out as well.

https://www.skial.com/threads/peopl...-are-out-of-control.121387/page-5#post-897480

 

[Jeffel]

How convenient it is that you just attack the 1 point you think you have a chance at winning and just ignore the rest.

I don't have easy access to server stats in a back panel and don't track things like this. Graphs, spreadsheets, something that shows these trends instead of just stating it would be extremely helpful to understand why it's your belief the servers are dying because of the player count rather than other reasons, when there are clearly very healthy 32 player servers out there. It's been exam time. Summer is almost here. There are so many variables at play, in addition to a shrinking TF2 player count overall. I don't comment on those other things because I simply don't have additional information, and the things I'm being told don't feel trustworthy or believable. I only know what I hear and feel myself for why and when I leave early, or the server dies early when I'm online.

How many returning players because of 40? Do they return because of player count, or because of the active users? If admin presence is applied more regularly, does that sustain the server on its own merit at 32 players? None of the things your regulars are saying and coming out here to ask are being examined.

Right now it's 2 am in Paris and there are 4 EU players on the US server. During peak EU hours this could be many multiples higher, but the server had 0 players during that time.



Why didn't you keep it filled when it was at 32 slots then?

The evidence clearly shows that 40 slots is more popular without having to do this experiment. We all know that making a new server in this environment will probably fail no matter what the settings are.

Then show the evidence that it's popular. If that's what people want, put a message on the 32 advertising it, put a command to !play40 or something for easy cross-join. If that's what the folks want, it should have grown on its merit.

I didn't do it because it LOOKED healthy to me again. It dies early sometimes. It has done so in the past. Summer was coming, it was gonna be more full again. I'm also not your employee. I'm playing a video game. If I'm gonna put work in, I'm not doing it somewhere that's now pulled a rug out because their TOS says their servers are gonna swap on a whim twice, and somewhere that does not review admins if they're lacking a supply and apply rules more firmly.

Thank you for all the work you've done. I sincerely hope your experience in this does see something true in the numbers and you're able to maintain a community, but you've not made it visible, or welcoming, to us.

 

[Bongo Cat]

oops

 

[D_Ink]

He told everyone on the 40 slot server to join the 32 slot for 2 days in a row. He managed to get the 40 slot server emptied out 1-2 hours earlier than it normally would have and the new 32 slot server filled for the remaining 1-2 hours before completely emptying out as well.

https://www.skial.com/threads/peopl...-are-out-of-control.121387/page-5#post-897480

Are you serious...have you really been repeating that as fact based on Juans post on the forum??

Silly me thought you were referring to some specific record of this 'event' , but you're basing it on Juan's [doesn't play Skial anymore] shit posts? ~_~

It is not how it happened. A few regulars accidentally found the new 32p server you'd never mentioned you were starting and told others in discord & steam.

Other people put in effort to tell players on the 40p server, [mostly Paolitux who got players to hop and he was the one that got muted] it certainty wasn't "one guy".

Many tried to seed the server early in the evening but found it tiresome without even bots to interact with. And it's tedious to constantly try to get people to swap from a game. We were on 32 and had to keep popping back in to 40 to tell people where we were because people just join off favourites.

"Advertising doesn't work", you are not comparing like for like...so, advertising Parkour maps in chat didn't fill them... really not the same as advertising a 32p server to people who had been asking for one. Players advertising though...that does not work because any player that is not your friend isn't going to trust someone telling them to join another IP.

Lastly, will you be mentioning the new server anywhere other than on here where you believe just a small handful of complainers will see it?

 

[logan 1.4 mpi driver]

im glad this thread is still going on strong our 2fort one died since we gave up trying to convince the owner lmao maybe you guys can change bottigers mind

 

[MDuka]

I'm taking a vow of silence until 32 player returns!

Pic unrelated.

 

[Calculon]

Are you serious...have you really been repeating that as fact based on Juans post on the forum??

Silly me thought you were referring to some specific record of this 'event' , but you're basing it on Juan's [doesn't play Skial anymore] shit posts? ~_~

It is not how it happened. A few regulars accidentally found the new 32p server you'd never mentioned you were starting and told others in discord & steam.

Other people put in effort to tell players on the 40p server, [mostly Paolitux who got players to hop and he was the one that got muted] it certainty wasn't "one guy".

Many tried to seed the server early in the evening but found it tiresome without even bots to interact with. And it's tedious to constantly try to get people to swap from a game. We were on 32 and had to keep popping back in to 40 to tell people where we were because people just join off favourites.

Agreed. I helped (along with all the usual suspects) to get the 32 player server full multiple times but, like most people playing this 18 year old game, I have a job and a life and I don't have time to waste breathing life into an empty server every night. I also have to sleep after being awake for a certain amount of hours, I need to cook, eat, clean, shit, shower and more and get ready to do it all over again tomorrow. I expect that others do too. We have jobs, kids, college or school. The main player base having lives to live is why the server is full from between 6 to 11pm and not 24 hours a day.

We know that EU1 normally already has players because people join how they always have done, from their favourites. It was already admitted somewhere in this thread that if EU1 was never changed from 32 players and if EU2 was 40 players from the jump then the new 40 player server wouldn't have survived. EU2 32 player felt a lot like something being set up to fail.

It's a massive ask of us to herd cats every night to get 25+ people to switch servers until it reaches a point a few randos join and take the last few slots and besides that, every time we did it killed the EU1 server stone dead.

There's no "one guy" who magicked everyone over and can "just" keep doing that every night.

 

[Paolitux]

"We know that EU1 normally already has players because people join how they always have done, from their favourites. It was already admitted somewhere in this thread that if EU1 was never changed from 32 players and if EU2 was 40 players from the jump then the new 40 player server wouldn't have survived. EU2 32 player felt a lot like something being set up to fail."

That is sure !!! nobody have the other one in favourite !! Ur exam isnt really good bottiger

 

[AisultanUmar]

bump +1

 

[Strudels]

What this thread feels like at this point.

 

[Eriknaitor]

I guess US died

 

[Bottiger]

I guess US died

If you call being full for 8 hours dead?

If you've been paying any attention, yes every server everywhere is dropping, not just payload, and not just skial. This isn't a secret, and has been mentioned multiple times in this thread.

This is the whole point of slot change. When the people who just get on during prime time for work and play 1 hour before going to sleep notice (most people here who said the server wasn't dying), it will be too late.

 

[D_Ink]

Does the US server have unlisted bots now? Played a little last night when it was full and there were some odd players, not afk but never chatting, congregating and hugging the cart on defense, no object permanence.

 

[bowwow]

If you call being full for 8 hours dead?

If you've been paying any attention, yes every server everywhere is dropping, not just payload, and not just skial. This isn't a secret, and has been mentioned multiple times in this thread.

This is the whole point of slot change. When the people who just get on during prime time for work and play 1 hour before going to sleep notice (most people here who said the server wasn't dying), it will be too late.

i checked the browser server list and it was empty, moreover it seems every one joined petrol.tf that day

 

[Bottiger]

i checked the browser server list and it was empty, moreover it seems every one joined petrol.tf that day

Was talking about US not NY. Your circle of friends is not "every one".

And your server filling at 8 pm PST sure looks healthy and thriving to me (not).

 

[bowwow]

Was talking about US not NY. Your circle of friends is not "every one".



And your server filling at 8 pm PST sure looks healthy and thriving to me (not).

1. did not know about a NY server
2. the US server is empty very often (sometimes at peak times) since it has been reverted back to 40 players
3. my "skial" circle of friends, who i actively talk to, are like 3 people 2 of which do not even play on the server anymore
4. halg of the eu server already by 12am GMT is americans so your point is moot
4.5. your "graph" does not show a whole lot especially since you do not mention which server it is

 

[Bottiger]

1. did not know about a NY server
2. the US server is empty very often (sometimes at peak times) since it has been reverted back to 40 players
3. my "skial" circle of friends, who i actively talk to, are like 3 people 2 of which do not even play on the server anymore
4. halg of the eu server already by 12am GMT is americans so your point is moot
4.5. your "graph" does not show a whole lot especially since you do not mention which server it is

The US server was empty very often when it was at 32 players as well. But it still filled during US times. Since you are european you wouldn't see it when it was active.

Why would you expect the EU server to be full at 12 am GMT when its 2-3 am in most of Europe?

That server is their replacement for the people here who want to see us fail and lose all our players to the point that they are even paying others to seed it.

 

[Sam Alt-Man]

That server is their replacement for the people here who want to see us fail and lose all our players to the point that they are even paying others to seed it.

Bottinger you cannot be this dense. We're not leaving because we want Skial to fail. By changing the player count you took away the gameplay that pulled us in every night. We tried to appeal to you and you've been nothing but condescending. So now we're building a new community that will reliably offer the gameplay we enjoy. It's really that simple. No one is paying me to seed. That's absurd. We have a community of people that want the same thing and they have been showing up nightly to get it going.

If you're right about the player count adjustments then surely your server will rebound, but we want something else out of our games.

 

[Jeffel]

The US server was empty very often when it was at 32 players as well. But it still filled during US times. Since you are european you wouldn't see it when it was active.

Why would you expect the EU server to be full at 12 am GMT when its 2-3 am in most of Europe?

That server is their replacement for the people here who want to see us fail and lose all our players to the point that they are even paying others to seed it.

As funny as it is to have several of my dear friends leaping out of nowhere to tell me about this post and ask for their money...
I want to openly say that no, I am not cutting my friends any monetary deals to play the game with me, so they can stop asking. (Love you all, though)

I will say, I did sponsor the single-time donator status of those who lacked donator the first time we hit a full server capacity earlier this week. I guess that got skewed out of context, but I'm happy to set the record straight. I hope those allegedly ineffective tools of text advertisements and server join commands work out well for you , as were clearly waved off in previous replies for suggesting them. I'm glad we/I could offer some ideas for my former community on my way out.

Ultimately, I think there's enough room for us all if 32 is a preference, and 40 is some new hotness for the next generation that might persuade some to tag along. We did the work trying to convince you. We were told to work for what we want -- and so we are. But, we went with somewhere that doesn't provoke, revoke, and approach those trying to have a dialog with disdain. Good luck with the work we originally asked you to do yourself, as well.

 

[Bottiger]

I will say, I did sponsor the single-time donator status of those who lacked donator the first time we hit a full server capacity earlier this week. I guess that got skewed out of context

Buying people stuff instead of just giving them plain cash does not let you weasel out of this claim.

I hope those allegedly ineffective tools of text advertisements and server join commands work out well for you , as were clearly waved off in previous replies for suggesting them.

We're not relying on them solely to get people to join. We are running an event. The ads by themselves are next to useless.

But, we went with somewhere that doesn't provoke, revoke, and approach those trying to have a dialog with disdain.

I tried responding politely at first, I even reverted the server back to 32 slots for a while.

But you people responding here are the ones that "provoke", "revoke", and selectively ignore what I say. It doesn't seem possible to have a productive conversation here as all the evidence is ignored and grumbling how I never listen to players. Did I not try to cooperate by reverting the server back to 32 slots for a while?

It's either your way or the highway, evidence be damned.

If you tried half as hard to keep the server alive or fill the new 32 slot server, there wouldn't have been any need for this drama.