New Changing Payload Servers to 40 player is a mistake

[Sam Alt-Man]

I searched the forum but don't see discussion on the recent change. Changing the PL server to allow up to 40 players (plus VIP if any) is a mistake. The rounds already feel different. Areas of the map that were already prone to being unbalanced toward RED or BLU now feel unplayable at times. 32 was already a stretch beyond how the game was designed, but usually works. This takes it way beyond what these maps can handle. I'd vote we change it back.

 

[Cream Tea]

There are 64 player servers and I haven't seen anybody complain about it. If you prefer a balanced or competitive gameplay you know where to find it I like community servers to be chaotic and fun I don't mind even if they make Dustbowl servers 64 players. As along as servers are filled and the owner is making money I don't see any downsides aside from few people hating on the change.

Everyone seems to have ignored what I said about community servers dying since the bot crisis was fixed last year. If you want to play on the maps the way Valve originally intended with 24 players then you can join casual for that. 32 players was always more chaotic than 24 and the only reason Skial stayed at 32 for so long was because that was always a hard limit until recently (technically there were ways to get 33 or even 34 players). Skial has servers that are capable of handling more players without performance issues and it gives players a chance to play the game in a way that wasn't possible back in the day.

 

[Mr.XxX]

There are 64 player servers and I haven't seen anybody complain about it. If you prefer a balanced or competitive gameplay you know where to find it I like community servers to be chaotic and fun I don't mind even if they make Dustbowl servers 64 players. As along as servers are filled and the owner is making money I don't see any downsides aside from few people hating on the change.

You don't see any downsides aside from a "few" people complaining about the change?
Here are some downsides of this change:

Performance Problems

People are experiencing performance problems since the change. Go to a 24 player server and record your fps and then go to a 40 or 64 player server and compare your fps then. Some people already had low fps before the change and increasing the player count to 40 did not improve it.

Map cluttering

As Mention often before in this thread, nearly every map is affected by this change and not in a good way. Metropolis, upward last, barnblitz etc where already hard enough to push with 32 players and now it becomes near impossible to do so because you have potentialy 4 more engies spamming sentries, 4 more demos spamming choke, 4 more medic+ heavy combo denying pushes. I could go on, but i think it is clear what i mean.

It soft buffes/nerfes certain classes

Also mentioned before in this thread.
For example Demo and soldiers get soft buffed because of this change as you just can spam aimlessly your projectile around and get kills. Combine this with a few kritz medics and it becomes an absolute shitfest.
This was already bad on 32 players and 40 just made it worse.
Spy and scout were hard enough to play on 32 players and now they are becoming just a absolute glass cannons.

These are just some problems since the change and all that for just that some people can join the server quicker. But in reality the server will still be quickly full and then the
queuing problem still exist. I have said it before this is a natural byproduct that is nearly impossible to eliminate if the server is well populated.

No, this change has not improved anything.

 

[Mr.XxX]

Everyone seems to have ignored what I said about community servers dying since the bot crisis was fixed last year. If you want to play on the maps the way Valve originally intended with 24 players then you can join casual for that. 32 players was always more chaotic than 24 and the only reason Skial stayed at 32 for so long was because that was always a hard limit until recently (technically there were ways to get 33 or even 34 players). Skial has servers that are capable of handling more players without performance issues and it gives players a chance to play the game in a way that wasn't possible back in the day.

I'm sorry but this is just not correct. Go to uncletopia, ugc, or fragmaster servers and check. Nearly all of them are either 24 or 32 and are still well populated. This was before the bot crisis and after the bot crisis.

Same about the performance issue. It is not about the Server Performance its about the players system performance. Once again telling people to go join casual or changing their settings just because of this change is not desirable for allot of people and frankly i dont think we should tell these people to basically fuck off.

 

[Cream Tea]

I'm sorry but this is just not correct. Go to uncletopia, ugc, or fragmaster servers and check.

Uncletopia doesn't have random crits plus it has class limits last time I checked. People only join UGC for the trade servers or gimmicks like "no flags/carts" or randomizer. Fragmasters only had three servers with pay-to-win donator mechanics and they are all dead right now.

 

[Mr.XxX]

Uncletopia doesn't have random crits plus it has class limits last time I checked. People only join UGC for the trade servers or gimmicks like "no flags/carts" or randomizer. Fragmasters only had three servers with pay-to-win donator mechanics and they are all dead right now.

Fair point with ugc servers.

Uncletopia is regardless well populated, even with these server settings.

The Fragmasters P.A.Y.L.O.A.D beginners server is always full at the peaktimes, you can check that on gametracker.com. But Fragmaster is pretty shit, uses a 33 tickrate instead of 66.

 

[flange_the_eternal]

40 players sucks and further eliminates the intimacy of interacting with individual players as every part of the map becomes a brutal choke.

 

[Strudels]

There are 64 player servers and I haven't seen anybody complain about it. If you prefer a balanced or competitive gameplay you know where to find it I like community servers to be chaotic and fun I don't mind even if they make Dustbowl servers 64 players. As along as servers are filled and the owner is making money I don't see any downsides aside from few people hating on the change.

Your 24/7 servers can keep 40 or 64 or whatever we don't care. When a server has more than one map in rotation, messing with player counts has consequences beyond "oh haha more player on 2fort goofy."

 

[bacchus]

There are 64 player servers and I haven't seen anybody complain about it. If you prefer a balanced or competitive gameplay you know where to find it I like community servers to be chaotic and fun I don't mind even if they make Dustbowl servers 64 players. As along as servers are filled and the owner is making money I don't see any downsides aside from few people hating on the change.

There are 64 player servers and I haven't seen anybody complain about it.

That's correct, no one is complaining about the existence of 64 player servers, as it is highly likely that the people playing on a 64 player server have specifically sought out that experience. The current complaints regard the fact that the Skial Payload server was previously 32 players and is now 40.

If you prefer a balanced or competitive gameplay you know where to find it I like community servers to be chaotic and fun I don't mind even if they make Dustbowl servers 64 players.

I don't think the "like it or leave it" dismissal applies to deliberate changes made to a longstanding characteristic of the server. How long had players been playing on a 32 player server? I'm guessing everyone here voicing a complaint has played on the server for a decent amount of time, and might even be donors.

What's the point of telling members of the community to kick rocks when they make complaints about changes to a community server they're a part of?

 

[hug sports]

Everyone seems to have ignored what I said about community servers dying since the bot crisis was fixed last year. If you want to play on the maps the way Valve originally intended with 24 players then you can join casual for that. 32 players was always more chaotic than 24 and the only reason Skial stayed at 32 for so long was because that was always a hard limit until recently (technically there were ways to get 33 or even 34 players). Skial has servers that are capable of handling more players without performance issues and it gives players a chance to play the game in a way that wasn't possible back in the day.

Dude you don’t even play on either PL+ server. This discussion is about the grassroots community that’s played and donated consistently on these servers for many years now, and now for seemingly no reason this huge change was done that affects how the core gameplay of the server feels.

 

[Strudels]

Since the bot crisis was fixed a lot of vanilla servers died and Bottiger obviously feels like Skial needs to stand out more by offering 40 player slots.

They want to stand out to what, attract new players by making changes without asking what the existing community thinks? Why not make a new server with 40 slots and any other changes. If this makes them 'stand out' then that new server will do great!

 

[Cream Tea]

Dude you don’t even play on either PL+ server. This discussion is about the grassroots community that’s played and donated consistently on these servers for many years now, and now for seemingly no reason this huge change was done that affects how the core gameplay of the server feels.

I used to years ago before I became the King of Deathrun.

 

[Kjo]

I used to years ago before I became the King of Deathrun.

deathrun ≠ 2fort, payload maps, etc.

 

[james bond]

I don't understand why the only response to those finding this change bad has been "play on different servers". If Skial wants to keep players, why tell them to seek out other servers for things it can't offer? Saying "if you don't like it, just leave" works for only when a few people are complaining, not when it's a sizeable amount of the playerbase of regulars.

 

[gala]

If Skial wants to keep players, why tell them to seek out other servers for things it can't offer? Saying "if you don't like it, just leave" works for only when a few people are complaining, not when it's a sizeable amount of the playerbase of regulars.

These responses are from other players, do you mean them? Nobody from staff has commented on this suggestion yet

 

[Cream Tea]

These responses are from other players, do you mean them? Nobody from staff has commented on this suggestion yet

That's the implication so far but it doesn't matter because the server is still as full as always.

 

[bowwow]

i don't think most people go to skial or community servers for the gameplay but it still has to be enjoyable, i think most people won't stay in the long run if their game stutters/lags constantly, if the hitreg gets even worse, if they can't play their desired class or subclass but that remains to be seen, the 2 maps of payload+ i did play with 40 players felt horrid

 

[drab]

Payload US regular and donator here (feels necessarily to clarify with some strong opinions in this thread from people who don't play on this server).

Payload with 40 people isn't enjoyable. Matches are unbalanced more often, and choke points feel like meat grinders. 32 player payload has been a pretty standard server set up for over a decade, let me play my old ass games in the old ass ways. No one asked for 40 person payload, but multiple people who make up the core community of this particular server are asking for the previous set up back. It feels like the neighborhood bar I frequent became a Chuck E Cheese clown show and I don't like it!

 

[The Dominus]

As someone who primarily plays demo and soldier on dustbowl (which also got the increase to 40 players) I've really not enjoyed the changes. You'd think that I would, considering the classes and map I play. But it just makes the games way more feast or famine, when if anything it's the respawn times that should be experimented with, not the player count. 40 players just kinda promotes the style of spam and lethargic gameplay because pushing becomes even more punishing. I can only imagine that this has an even worse effect on the payload servers, where more strategy/teamwork is involved.

However, I'd love to see Skial bring back the 100 player server. Similar to others, I love playing Skial, but don't want to have to always go to Shounic's server (which has a very unwelcoming community to the likes of myself). This would allow the other servers to be reverted while still giving the big server audience a place to play.

 

[Rexatronz]

Time to Drop the Truth Nuke

Bigger does not mean better
The TL; DR for you people is don’t try turning something into something it's not or you're just going to get a bad result from it and just because you think it's ok does not mean the same to others.

A few weeks ago, I noticed that Skial’s max player count on the 24/7 payload server increased a large amount. At first, I thought it was a bug, so I hopped on to see if it was true and lo and behold, I was correct. I was told that there was no discussion about considering a server size increase nor Skial forums and that it was probably a bug with Skial premium. I was worried about creating a forum because I thought I would be called crazy, and I should “enjoy this more modernized version of Payload” or stop whining about a “Minor” change. And a week later I checked on Skial to see people complaining about the recent change. Since I've played Skial’s Payload for more than 2 years and I can finally call myself a server regular among the crowd I thought about speaking out about my thoughts on this recent change.

The server is a stretch form the core vanilla 24-32 player experience and Identity
It may come to a shock to some of you but TF2 was a game designed to be a 24 to 32 player experience in mind, not anything higher than that and lower, and an increase like this can stray away/disrupt its playability.

You may ask, well Skial made it 32. Why does 40 look like a big jump and I say that the 24 to 32 is the sweet spot on how many players should be in a given server.

The Identity of Skial’s Payload 32 is that there are no crits, no bullet spread, a somewhat positive atmosphere and it comes down to having fun first than winning.

Due to Skial’s VIP subscription servers can go up to 37 temporarily to accommodate for the people who have paid for it. When I mean temporarily the players who have not paid for VIP can’t join a full server but the ones that did can join up to 37 and if reached beyond that threshold it will force a player out that did not pay for it. This means that it will never stay at 37 for long and will naturally decay back down to 32.

As I recall from a post from an admin, the Skial servers try to preserve the original gameplay of TF2 and not stray away from it.

Performance on Servers
Yes, this is an issue for lower end devices and as someone who first played TF2 on a lower end device I do see an issue that a jump of 8 players can have an effect of the server connecting to your given instance of the game which also has to do the same to the other players in a server.

The excuse of “Go and Use Mastercomfig and get your PC optimized to play TF2” just shifts the burden to players, rather than addressing the root issue. A person might experience that their computer is not good enough to play this game that runs on over 21-year-old code even though that just ran fine yesterday.

Players new and old should not go out of their way to do something that the developers should have done a long time ago.

Go to Another Server if You Don’t Like This One
Skial is the biggest community server by far and has the effective gold standard when it comes to hosting servers.

You may ask “Why Don't You Go to UGC or Uncletopia” and I say that these are not solutions. Uncletopia has the hardest TryHards in all of tf2 right next to MGE servers and UGC mostly has Gimmick non vanilla servers.

I'm not going to leave my community to pursue some cheesy game modes like prop hunt and VSH.

Telling people to go to another is not going to help Skial’s problem of player retention and revenue.

The other question in the room is “Why Not and Go play Casual” and I say that Casual is a crime to TF2, I’ve tried so hard to like Casual ever since it was bot free a while ago but I keep on coming back to the same conclusion that it's a broken piece of trash due to the Long queue times, Not being able to really form of a community and It was designed to be a competitive version of TF2 in mind when Meet Your Match Dropped.

The Friendships we made along the way
The Friends that I’ve made on Skial accounts for more than 80% of my friends list thanks to Skial’s existence alone.

I can’t just leave the friends/community that I was apart for years to go to one that I know none from, I will not join a soulless Casual and TryHardTopia.

Game Balance
Due to an increase of players each team now has 4 more players which might sound like nothing but has a big impact on gameplay.

Classes that utilize explosive/splash damage classes like Soldier and Demoman get soft buffs while classes like the spy get severely nerfed making them even more useless.

This also makes classes like Engineer more annoying to fight on defense due to staking.

The classes that would be affected negatively for example: Scout due to sentries, Pyro due to range and Spy because he is Spy.

This also makes it harder to push due to relying on pub pushes more often and flanks being covered almost at all times.

It would be more situational for every class but at the end of the day it makes it harder to push, makes it more of a chaotic/spam filled mess and feels more crowded.

Skial Revenue
I know that Skial makes money from selling VIP to players and they Decided to increase players to increase their revenue and to people who have not paid they see ads which generates Skial money. Due to this I could imagine Skial doing this as a no brainer but will have negative effects.

People not liking joining servers where it feels unbearable to fight could cause them to stop buying VIP subscriptions and for the people who have not paid, they will leave losing Skial ad revenue.

Possible Compromise/Ideas
A possible compromise/Idea is to make a new server for 24 or 32 so there are more options for people to choose or just revert it back to normal.

The Reason I Came to Speak Today
The reason I came to speak today was because of an unfair change done to a very beloved server where you could make friends, talk about the political state of the world or just have a good time and I wouldn't trade it for anything else but that.

The People that came to this forum came here because they cared about this server which is the same reason I did as well.

Conclusion
In conclusion the 32 payload servers offered the best experience of a payload server in TF2 and should have never changed for the worse.

And for the people that are angry about this post I'm not sorry the only people who would want it to stay at 40 would be those who have no job, showing people dead memes for attention, Rage bating for whatever reason and got their frontal lobe removed but at the end or the day get Rexatronzed.

Sorry If it's long or wasn't professional or something, if you don't want to read the whole thing use AI to summarize it or something I don’t really care.

 

[flange_the_eternal]

If more = better then why stop at 40, why not turn it into Shounic Trenches 2.0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)